Very Ill Elderly Snake

Snakegurl13 · #1 (**permalink**) 07-28-2010, 08:14 PM

So i got a call, a boy was trying to get rid of a snake he had just gotten, his mom wouldnt let him keep it. so i took it off his hands.... He is blind, i was told he has built up eye caps from years of neglect. one eye is buldging, and in the right light you can see both pupils... they both move, and react to light. BUT he does not react to movement, he reacts to noise and blowing on him (like your breath). but thats not the worst of it! He has repeated "kinks" in his lower spine. they are about an inch long (each kink) ribs conected to the spine feel normal. they are large kinks, about 1/2 inch high off his back. he has movement in his rear end, but its very weak, and he doesnt hold on to anything. if you roll him on his back he rolls back, just a little slower then normal snakes. sometimes when your holding him he will flip his head and upper neck over and you have to correct him. he had a bowel movment last night, which seemed runny to me, along with a green globb.

His previous living conditions are un clear to me.. when i picked him up, he had newspaper in a large tank, a good sized water dish, but a REGULAR light blub for a "heat" source. no thermometer no humidity guage. no substrate. NOTHING. i was told he sleeps in his water dish... (he didnt the first night i had him, he did last night) I currently have his cage at 85 warm side 75ish cool side, 95ish hot spot... but he doesnt realy move... so i just reach in to make sure he feels warm, but not HOT! he is very slow moving, doesnt pull back fast, even if you open his mouth, or bump his face. i was told he eats pre killed small rats, and to just take the tongs and move it near his nose. He seems a healthy weight... not boney.. flicks his tounge like a normal snake.
great looking skin! no flaws, or mites are apparent. no signs of RI or mouth rot!
Now im sure everyone will say GET HIM TO THE VET! well i wish i could... we cannot find a vet that will see him. the vet i take my Ball pythons to, wont see a boa, claims he isnt knowledgeable.. ANY IDEAS OR TIPS!

p.s
They claim he is 10 years old.
i have him in STRICT quarintine!!!

Snakegurl13 · #2 (**permalink**) 07-29-2010, 08:58 PM

Well anyone who read this, i just wanted to update you! I found the previous owner to this snake, who provided me with some insight... The snake has metibolic bone disorder, and has been this way since he was obtained by his first owner. His first owner was a local Zoo, who had veterinarian records, along with what the other owner had. The snake has seen a few vets about his eyes, and they are retained eye caps, but to have them surgicaly removed wouldn't do any good, because he is blind under them! Many blood tests have been run, and he doesnt have IBD, or any other disease that is contagious. He also has no parasites! he was at the local zoo for 7 years, and owned by a man for three and half. So, he;s not un healthy.. he just has conditions. and now that i have seen paper work on it im soooo releived!!

morti · #3 (**permalink**) 07-29-2010, 09:02 PM

I am glad you are satisfied with those answers. I would not be because some of them don't make much sense and I would personally feel more comfortable having the snake checked out by a qualified vet, but hey... it's not my snake.

Coffee Succubus · #4 (**permalink**) 07-29-2010, 09:05 PM

10 years is still relatively young for a boa. Under good conditions, they can live 30-40 years.

I'm really glad you were able take him in and give him a loving home!
And good thing you found out his history! What a relief that must've been.

Do you have any pictures to share with us?

Rachel SS · #5 (**permalink**) 07-29-2010, 09:06 PM

I would take the snake to a qualified vet as well. Retained eye caps can have bacterial and fungal growth under them and NEED to be removed.

he actually sounds very UNhealthy to me, and if he has a bone disease a vet can tell you the best way to treat it or give advice as to whether the snake is in pain and should be euthanized because there is no cure/treatment.

HERPHAPPY · #6 (**permalink**) 07-29-2010, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rachel SS

I would take the snake to a qualified vet as well. Retained eye caps can have bacterial and fungal growth under them and NEED to be removed.

he actually sounds very UNhealthy to me, and if he has a bone disease a vet can tell you the best way to treat it or give advice as to whether the snake is in pain and should be euthanized because there is no cure/treatment.

You read my mind Rachel...

telefrag · #7 (**permalink**) 07-29-2010, 10:05 PM

sounds more like osteomyelitis than it does MBD based on the description of the kinks.

mongoose5971 · #8 (**permalink**) 07-29-2010, 11:51 PM

I was unaware snakes could get MBD ??

HERPHAPPY · #9 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 12:39 AM

There was some kind of virus that a couple museum snakes came down with where I used to live that caused nasty stinky diarrhea and spinal deformities...unfortunately the lady in charge of the museum at that time had a huge ego that refused to accept that any animals could be sick on her watch and by the time she sought vet care, they both died. (those were native desert rosy boas) Until then I had never heard of anything causing spinal deformities (besides trauma) after birth/hatching of snakes, but I don't know whether or not this relates to your snake...but his stools are not normal and I just think a vet might be useful...if it is progressive & painful it may be best to not allow it to suffer?

Snakegurl13 · #10 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 03:50 AM

i would love to post pictures of my snake, im un sure how to do that on this website tho! if someone would like to tell me how i will!

Snakegurl13 · #11 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 03:55 AM

i think i figured out the photos... i hope!

morti · #12 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 04:05 AM

As we discussed in chat last night...

I am not a vet and any advice I give is Not medical advice. I am just an experienced herper.

I have seen a couple of snakes with very similar spinal issues. Those are not "kinks". That is a symptom of systemic bacterial infection... also known as osteomyelitis as telefrag suggested.

That is a snake that needs a vet now... not a vet from years ago.

You said in chat that you were unwilling to travel to your nearest vet. Find someone who will take the snake or put the snake out of its misery.

LdyDrgn · #13 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 04:10 AM

Snakes do not get MBD.

As far as newspaper goes.. that IS the substrate. It is what we use. It is actually a very good substrate to use since the ink is soy based and has anti-biotic properties. Easy to clean, easy to come by, and easier to keep a cage sterile if need be.

A regular light bulb works just fine as a heat source. I don't personally recommend it, but it works.

Please listen to the advice you have gotten here. The members that have replied to your post are experienced keepers, not "internuts"

Snakegurl13 · #14 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 04:13 AM

well he was at the vet (who photographed him also) april of this year (with his previous owner) i saw the vet records... and i see no reason to take him to the vet, I have documentation that the eye caps have to be surgically removed and would be a cosmetic surgery only because the eyes are blind. and the calcium deficiency is what caused the spine to do that!

morti · #15 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 04:15 AM

BTW... I believe that the substrate you are using is that expanded coconut stuff. it is a fine particulate that can easily get logged in your snakes mouth, nostrils and cloaca.

If you keep your ball python on that crap it is even worse because it will fill in the snakes heat pits.

I would switch to something that is sanitary... like newspaper.

morti · #16 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakegurl13

well he was at the vet (who photographed him also) april of this year (with his previous owner) i saw the vet records... and i see no reason to take him to the vet, I have documentation that the eye caps have to be surgically removed and would be a cosmetic surgery only because the eyes are blind. and the calcium deficiency is what caused the spine to do that!

Fine... Don't take my advice.

Please don't ask me when your snake dies or when your other one gets sick because of your bull headed stubbornness. I will simply point back to this thread.

HERPHAPPY · #17 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 04:18 AM

As I think was already mentioned, a boa of 11 years is not by any stretch "old".
This poor sweetie has serious problems in my opinion...that was kind of you to take him in, but only if you don't ignor the "elephants in the room"?
We obviously cannot medically evaluate him online....but those spinal bumps are very reminiscent of the late museum rosy boas that I spoke of. (as best as I can see, anyway)
I have never heard of a vet who will see ball pythons yet claims to have no expertise in boas??? They get the same illnesses!!!! the only logical explanation is that your vet is afraid of larger snakes (and bps are very docile anyway!)...no offense to your vet but that is totally fishy!
Hard to recommend another vet without knowing your whereabouts, and sorry to say I still think you need a reptile vet.

Keri · #18 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 04:25 AM

That bulging eye looks PAINFUL

I know you seem happy with the last vet's report but it doesn't make sense. Not all vets are experienced with reptiles.

I'm sorry to say this and I hope you don't feel "ganged up on" but I agree with the others, he needs to see an experienced herp vet.

Rachel SS · #19 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 04:39 AM

I myself have actually in person seen on someone's snake a retained eyecap that the owner REFUSED to take off and it had an absolutely disgusting fungal infection on it, from the owner consistently soaking the snake, water getting UNDER the eyecap.

A nice moist area applied with a little heat causes SEVERE damage to the eye left untreated.

You need another vets opinion, no questions asked. After seeing pictures of that snake, it looks like it's in pain. People who have spinal curvatures and vertebrae that are out of alignment are in SERIOUS pain without pain killers, and since you can't give those to snakes, I'm willing to bet that snake is suffering.

HERPHAPPY · #20 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HERPHAPPY

There was some kind of virus that a couple museum snakes came down with where I used to live that caused nasty stinky diarrhea and spinal deformities...unfortunately the lady in charge of the museum at that time had a huge ego that refused to accept that any animals could be sick on her watch and by the time she sought vet care, they both died. (those were native desert rosy boas) Until then I had never heard of anything causing spinal deformities (besides trauma) after birth/hatching of snakes, but I don't know whether or not this relates to your snake...but his stools are not normal and I just think a vet might be useful...if it is progressive & painful it may be best to not allow it to suffer?

And sorry, I meant to say bacterial infection....not virus....

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