Very Ill Elderly Snake - Page 2

Icicle · #21 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 04:46 AM

Is this or Is this not going to be a waste of time and a waste of server space.
I however feel the later of the two.
If the OP wants to waste our time by not taking our advice, I shall waste their time on having them reading this post.
If your Boa does die, you will not get any sympathy from me or others by not heeding great advice.
I for one would not believe past vet reports you have gotten, and I will tell you why:
1. how do you know the report is for your snake?
2. how do you know they didn't switch reports or pictures of said snake in the reports.

Am I just

SUAD · #22 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 05:05 AM

And that would be twice today. Iceman, what bug got into you today? Normally you seem pretty cool.

Back on point- I agree with what everyone has said here, TS needs to take that snake in to a vet that knows what they're doing and be pro-active in handling the attention that it gets while there. Those eyecaps need to go, no excuses!

Snakegurl13 · #23 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icicle

Is this or Is this not going to be a waste of time and a waste of server space.
I however feel the later of the two.
If the OP wants to waste our time by not taking our advice, I shall waste their time on having them reading this post.
If your Boa does die, you will not get any sympathy from me or others by not heeding great advice.
I for one would not believe past vet reports you have gotten, and I will tell you why:
1. how do you know the report is for your snake?
2. how do you know they didn't switch reports or pictures of said snake in the reports.

Am I just

Sure is rude, But.. some people are just born that way. Although i see the point, someone could have switch the report or lied or whatever.. But.. The man that owned this snake is the only local rescue in our area for reptiles, he also is a herpetologist, and from the research i have done (limited, but i have done it) his facts match. I have been able to get some details of MBD from vets outside of my area, although it is only over the phone, i feel its the proper diagnosis. I see no reason why a local reptile rescue owner, who works at a zoo, who seems honest would lie about this. When he "re homed" this snake, he thought it was going to a good home, not to some idiot who was going to give it away. he was very angry that this happened, but was happy to know that it will be loved and cared for in our home. He even wishes to be "oh hand" if we ever need anything for our snakes. He offered up a free visit to a vet at the zoo in which he works (a few hours away). But many of you have good points. but where i live i dont have access to herp vets. and i feel that through the records i have seen, and the consult that i had with another vet, that the animal is able to live a decent life. But to me, this would be compared to a dog who was half parylised, and as many would have it put down, some would not. The snake eats on its own un assisted, sheds un assisted, and moves un assisted. So, i think he deserves the chance to live. and being so young, he has plenty of time to soak up some sunshine, and be loved along the way! He has no signs a current infection, but did have an infection many years ago, which he was treated for. (in his eye.) so thanks everyone for imput and opinions!

Snakegurl13 · #24 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morti

BTW... I believe that the substrate you are using is that expanded coconut stuff. it is a fine particulate that can easily get logged in your snakes mouth, nostrils and cloaca.

If you keep your ball python on that crap it is even worse because it will fill in the snakes heat pits.

I would switch to something that is sanitary... like newspaper.

Well not to argue, but i have had my BP's on the substrate for years! never had a problem in the world! ... inless they get stupid and strike and get it in their mouth.. which isnt hard to get out. It keeps the humidity up, its alot more natural, it has the potential to plant plants in it.. and my snakes love to burro in it! and when it comes to being sanitary.. you change it out once a month or so, and make sure you get any poo poo out! along with the dirt it is on! so maybe my snakes are smart? cause we've never gotten that dirt in a nostril or cloaca! even during breeding season. but thanks anyway.

SUAD · #25 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 05:23 AM

Snakegurl, I am not trying to seem like I'm ganging up on you or anything, but MBD has everything to do with calcium and phosphorus levels in the animal - something that mammal consuming predators get more than enough of. Your snake cannot have MBD, and whoever told you this lied to you. The green poo is a definite issue that needs to be resolved ASAP. In my experience, snakes with green feces expire somewhere in the relatively near future.

Check out the 4th paragraph: About.com: http://www.anapsid.org/mbd2.html

Rachel SS · #26 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakegurl13

Well not to argue, but i have had my BP's on the substrate for years! never had a problem in the world! ... inless they get stupid and strike and get it in their mouth.. which isnt hard to get out. It keeps the humidity up, its alot more natural, it has the potential to plant plants in it.. and my snakes love to burro in it! and when it comes to being sanitary.. you change it out once a month or so, and make sure you get any poo poo out! along with the dirt it is on! so maybe my snakes are smart? cause we've never gotten that dirt in a nostril or cloaca! even during breeding season. but thanks anyway.

Newspaper is so much cheaper, if you have a paper shredder, toss the newspaper through it and your snakes will bury themselves in it too. It's a million and one times easier to clean up, it's SO much cheaper and your snakes will never know the difference

Rachel SS · #27 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakegurl13

Sure is rude, But.. some people are just born that way. Although i see the point, someone could have switch the report or lied or whatever.. But.. The man that owned this snake is the only local rescue in our area for reptiles, he also is a herpetologist, and from the research i have done (limited, but i have done it) his facts match. I have been able to get some details of MBD from vets outside of my area, although it is only over the phone, i feel its the proper diagnosis. I see no reason why a local reptile rescue owner, who works at a zoo, who seems honest would lie about this. When he "re homed" this snake, he thought it was going to a good home, not to some idiot who was going to give it away. he was very angry that this happened, but was happy to know that it will be loved and cared for in our home. He even wishes to be "oh hand" if we ever need anything for our snakes. He offered up a free visit to a vet at the zoo in which he works (a few hours away). But many of you have good points. but where i live i dont have access to herp vets. and i feel that through the records i have seen, and the consult that i had with another vet, that the animal is able to live a decent life. But to me, this would be compared to a dog who was half parylised, and as many would have it put down, some would not. The snake eats on its own un assisted, sheds un assisted, and moves un assisted. So, i think he deserves the chance to live. and being so young, he has plenty of time to soak up some sunshine, and be loved along the way! He has no signs a current infection, but did have an infection many years ago, which he was treated for. (in his eye.) so thanks everyone for imput and opinions!

The problem with comparing dogs to snakes is.. well a big thing, dogs have legs, so a dog with paralysis can get a little wheel chair and scoot around for movement and exercise. Dogs can get prosthetic legs for amputations as well.

Honestly, that snake needs to see another vet. 10 years in snake life is not old, I promise you. If you post up your location (not your exact address, just city and state) we can help find you a good vet.

I don't know if snake can have MBD, but I definitely, absolutely 100% would NOT be satisfied with the answers about those eyecaps. They can be removed and I think it can be done without "plastic surgery" or what that vet told you.

Coffee Succubus · #28 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 05:31 AM

Holy crackerjacks, girlfriend... You certainly ARE stubborn.

Ever consider that people lie? Or give advice when they are unknowingly unknowlegable?

And just because you're doing fine with that god aweful subtrate now, doesn't mean you won't have later problems. ((Kinda like a smoker being fine until they later develop lung cancer))

Also, just a question, how long have you been dealing with snakes?

Every single person here is very experienced with their animals and/or have MANY MANY years under their belts with keeping snakes. You may as well wipe your slate clean and start your learning over... because this is the perfect place to recieve quality/accurate information and advice.

HERPHAPPY · #29 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakegurl13

.... So, i think he deserves the chance to live. and being so young, he has plenty of time to soak up some sunshine, and be loved along the way! He has no signs a current infection, but did have an infection many years ago, which he was treated for. (in his eye.) so thanks everyone for imput and opinions!

So do we, maybe more than you realize?.... but things (ie. medical reports) can change alot in 3 months time! I understand that you want to believe the thought-to-be well-intentioned advice you were given but that fact is, he DOES show signs of a current infection? (stool kinda runny and green globs...sound familiar?)(not to mention the spinal deformities!?)
I guess what bothers me is that a snake cannot express pain....you have to read between the lines to prevent needless & cruel suffering. They are totally at the mercy of their keeper. I'd never ignor symptoms like this snake has...he'd be seeing a competent reptile vet A.S.A.P.! BTW, I've kept snakes extensively for 24 years now...
(just for fun, try googling 'osteomyelitis' etc....and please think about it?)

Rachel SS · #30 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 05:33 AM

sorry for the triple post, but snakegurl I kept my snakes on cypress when I lived in california, and would switch back and forth between newspaper and cypress.

one of my friends out there had a few Morelia species and one ended up with this nasty respiratory infection caused by spores in the cypress, I even saw the necropsy after and the vet said it was because of the cypress mulch.

I moved back to Florida and STILL kept my snakes on cypress (figured it was a one time thing, no biggie) and heard a couple people on this site had issues with cypress and it killing their snakes from spores. That was it, I gave up.

I've used aspen, coco husk, carefresh bedding, bed-a-beast, and NOTHING compares to newspaper for cost, clean up, and maintenance.

My boas used to love burrowing in the cypress until one of them got a piece stuck in their mouth that I had to carefully pull out (and the snake lost a couple teeth, too)

The majority of people here will help, sometimes you have to pick through the bad stuff to get to the good.

Icicle · #31 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakegurl13

Sure is rude, But.. some people are just born that way. Although i see the point, someone could have switch the report or lied or whatever.. But.. The man that owned this snake is the only local rescue in our area for reptiles, he also is a herpetologist, and from the research i have done (limited, but i have done it) his facts match. I have been able to get some details of MBD from vets outside of my area, although it is only over the phone, i feel its the proper diagnosis. I see no reason why a local reptile rescue owner, who works at a zoo, who seems honest would lie about this. When he "re homed" this snake, he thought it was going to a good home, not to some idiot who was going to give it away. he was very angry that this happened, but was happy to know that it will be loved and cared for in our home. He even wishes to be "oh hand" if we ever need anything for our snakes. He offered up a free visit to a vet at the zoo in which he works (a few hours away). But many of you have good points. but where i live i dont have access to herp vets. and i feel that through the records i have seen, and the consult that i had with another vet, that the animal is able to live a decent life. But to me, this would be compared to a dog who was half parylised, and as many would have it put down, some would not. The snake eats on its own un assisted, sheds un assisted, and moves un assisted. So, i think he deserves the chance to live. and being so young, he has plenty of time to soak up some sunshine, and be loved along the way! He has no signs a current infection, but did have an infection many years ago, which he was treated for. (in his eye.) so thanks everyone for imput and opinions!

I may be rude at times, and I have also been called Heartless and blind, But I know where and how I stand. If I am not mistaken herpetologist are not the Same as a reptile Vet.

And there you go again on making the same lame excuse on the real reason (in bold print) why your so afraid to take to a highly trained Vet.
I will admit you have real talent to call me rude, but you are also being rude to your snake for not getting proper treatment.

And to answer your next comment to me,
no I'm not always rude.

Rachel SS · #32 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 05:43 AM

She's not calling the herpetologist a vet? She got the snake from a herpetologist, and the snake also had vet care?

or am I reading that wrong?

HERPHAPPY · #33 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakegurl13

.... he has movement in his rear end, but its very weak, and he doesnt hold on to anything....

Don't you get it? Those spinal bumps = slow paralysis! and not from "MBD"!
It's truly not a pretty way to go, what with the internal gastrointestinal symptoms too.
For the sake of this snake, please re-think this...it may be too late even now...?

louise · #34 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 06:02 AM

i cannot post on this thread on the actual topic. i would be worse then ice for sure. but i do have a question....can you mist newspaper? i mean really mist it. not much humidity here in MI and i mist the mulch really good.

HERPHAPPY · #35 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 06:03 AM

As far as a past vet saying this snake has MBD, you gotta remember that many vets will 'see' reptiles ('cause they want the business!!!) and they may mean well, but if their experience is limited and they remember some lizard patients (like the popular 'beardies') with this problem they are apt to jump to the wrong conclusion. Vets are human too...

Snakegurl13 · #36 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icicle

I may be rude at times, and I have also been called Heartless and blind, But I know where and how I stand. If I am not mistaken herpetologist are not the Same as a reptile Vet.

And there you go again on making the same lame excuse on the real reason (in bold print) why your so afraid to take to a highly trained Vet.
I will admit you have real talent to call me rude, but you are also being rude to your snake for not getting proper treatment.

And to answer your next comment to me,
no I'm not always rude.

well, as i am only here for opinions, i dont care if your rude. doesnt break my heart any. BUT, i never said that a herpetologist is not the same as a vet... im not that i'll informed. But the herpetologist that previously owned him took him to several "highly trained vets" who specialized in snakes. The snake has reportedly been like this for many years, as his condition has not changed. so i see no reason to re evaluate him inless he has new symptoms...

louise · #37 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 06:07 AM

and you are sure he is not in pain?

Snakegurl13 · #38 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HERPHAPPY

Don't you get it? Those spinal bumps = slow paralysis! and not from "MBD"!
It's truly not a pretty way to go, what with the internal gastrointestinal symptoms too.
For the sake of this snake, please re-think this...it may be too late even now...?

well he did have a normal, large BM this evening after eating yesterday. no green.. so perhaps he just had an odd poo, i dont know weirder things have happened! BUT! i have found other similar cases of snakes who have the same appearance as mine (the spine) and they also were diagnosed with MBD. they have the same symptoms such as partial control of the tail, but still function. Its not common in snakes, as it is in lizards. But.. I know he is not the only one who has those spinal deformities, that has been diagnosed with MBD, at some point in the animals life. So i know not everyone was saying it cant be MBD cause it doesnt happen in snakes, but.. to those who did say that... my only comment is, just because its not all over the internet, and commonly known.. or you havent seen it yourself.. dont assume its not possible! Heck.. we all learn new things every day!

Snakegurl13 · #39 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by louise

and you are sure he is not in pain?

Well that is a concern just because im very motherly! i dont want my pets in pain... but from the experience i have had, with injured snakes.. they typicaly make an effort to keep you from hurting them.. such as pulling away, or in some cases striking. BUT this guy is VERY relaxed. I've seen him cruising around in the sunshine, probably as fast as he can, and he moves smoothly and not with the quickness of my BP's.. but he moves faster then when your touching his tail or moving him. He's very non reactive inless you catch him off guard. he cruises around his cage, slow and calm, and up the stick, and through the water.. but with most animals, its hard to tell when they are in pain. I personally dont think he is pain, but i also can't just ask him

or i would.

Icicle · #40 (**permalink**) 07-30-2010, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakegurl13

well, as i am only here for opinions, i dont care if your rude. doesnt break my heart any. BUT, i never said that a herpetologist is not the same as a vet... im not that i'll informed. But the herpetologist that previously owned him took him to several "highly trained vets" who specialized in snakes. The snake has reportedly been like this for many years, as his condition has not changed. so i see no reason to re evaluate him inless he has new symptoms...

Bingo, I think I found an honest answer from you.
Now you think your a vet. How do you know if his condition has or has not changed?
Just because You see no change, doesn't mean there isn't.
How do you tell if he has any new symptoms?

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