Quarantine question. Please don't flame me!

[BoaNation]

For starters I do know how to take care of snakes. There is nothing wrong with getting other people opinions.

I have been thinking about the quarantine thing all night last night and all day today. I have also been reading about quarantining all day. So I did research before asking the question. I am thinking about purchasing a couple big guyana females. They are both imported. One was imported over a year ago and the other way early this year.

From what i read today they can be tested for IBD through blood work. If I got both tested for IBD and they were both clean. What other main issues should I be worried about with keeping them in the same room? (besides mites) They would for sure be in seperate cages until breeding time. I am very open to your opinions.

[Reptscue]

I haven't heard anything saying that there is a definitive blood test for IBD yet. (are you using Melissa Kaplan's site for reference) A snake can show normal blood values and still be carring the virus.
The only way to be sure is to do a biopsy of the liver/kidneys, or pancreas. (Trust me, I have been dealing with IBD for 3 years)

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	Inclusion Body Disease IBD

[BoaNation]

Thanks for the reply. You are correct about having to do the three things. I believe I looked at that site as well.

Do you think that quarantining has to be done in seperate rooms? If mites are not present?

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

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[nitram]

i think they could both be quarantined in the same room but away from your collection.. also the obvious, save handling and cleaning the cage of your new recruits for last to avoid cross contamination.

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[tbowman]

Originally Posted by BoaNation

Thanks for the reply. You are correct about having to do the three things. I believe I looked at that site as well.
Do you think that quarantining has to be done in seperate rooms? If mites are not present?

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that the whole point of quarantining it?

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

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[AGActaeonia]

That no mites are in evidence is no reason to believe there are none. Only through separate quarantine can one determine after a mite-eggs general gestation period can it be determined that none of these, external parasites, are present.

It is unlikely that, were they housed in the same room, well from an established collection and well away from one another, that they'll be infected through cross-contamination so long as the appropriate methods of quarantine are followed.

Do not share items such as cage furniture, tools or substrate between the two. Wash your hands with anti-bacterial soap before handling them. Do not offer first one, then the second a refused food item, etc.

I personally would not house them together (in the same room) for three months. Only thereafter would I consider housing them in the same room, and I would still follow those above-listed as well as other steps to avoid cross-contamination between the two.

Secondly, there is no definitive evidence that IBD is an airborne virus. It's most often spread through fecal matter, or other means commonly used with snakes that another snake has access to, or, most idiotically of all, if one were to house both animals in the same enclosure.

As was previously mentioned, neither have I heard tell of a conclusive method involving blood work to isolate and positively identify IBD. The most definitive method is through necropsy, and that somewhat defeats the purpose.

As for knowing snakes front to back, I would be more concerned with your experience with adult WC Boas than quarantine alone.

Good luck.

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

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	Inclusion Body Disease IBD

	Wild caught wild caught

[BoaNation]

Thanks. I have no experience with wild cought animals.

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[AGActaeonia]

Originally Posted by BoaNation

Thanks. I have no experience with wild caught animals.

In that case, I would - before purchase - commit to learning as much about the locale as possible in order to best combat the negative effect of capture and difficult acclimation. WC snakes can be a handful for one inexperienced in their care. Extremely challenging, believe me, having spent 14 months attempting to deal with a WC Ball Python - much less disagreeable than an angry Guyanan lady.

Why WC? Have you an interest in introducing some new blood in to a project?

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[BoaNation]

Well I have been looking for a breedable sized Guyana female for a while and i keep seeing the listings on KS. And I like the fact thet they are big. I have read about WC before, but not extenisvley. I have the book "the complete boa constrictor" by Russo. And he talks about them in it.

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[Reptscue]

FYI.... pythons usually show IBD within 6 months, boas can take up to 2 years after being infected.... I wouldn't go for it if it was me in your shoes. Just too much is at risk.
Just my 2 cents.

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[BlackLava]

How common is IBD in the wild though? i would think that since they supposedly rarely come close to other snakes for very long that it wouldnt be so common, like it can be in captivity where usually there are multiple snakes housed very closely together. i wouldnt think i would worry about IBD from a WC snake so much as i would worry about external and internal parasites, and of course a smooth transition into captive life.

i see eric ivins browsing, he will have more info on WC animals lol

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[EricIvins]

I've got to ask - What is the difference between a healthy, Wild caught animal, and a healthy Captive Bred animal? I keep seeing all this stuff posted about Wild Caught animals from people that have never delt with a Wild Caught Boa before. I've delt with both, and I've never had a problem with a healthy animal. Didn't matter whether it was Wild Caught or Captive Bred. Matter of fact, I've had more problems with buying CBB animals with age on them because people didn't know how to care for them. I've had very little problems with any of the WC stuff, mainly because I can go pick out animals striaght from the crate. Just an FYI, but the Surinam stuff I have available to me comes from the crate just about flawless. The Guyanan stuff is different, but that has to do with how the Gov't works their Export laws. The problem comes when you treat a healthy animal that doesn't need to be treated. It seems like the vast majority of people seem to think that because these animals come from the Jungle, they automatically carry some kind of Jungle funk. Which can be farthest from the truth. This is it in a nutshell -

Treat a healthy animal - You kill both Good and Bad - The animal needs the good to acclimate well - You now have brought that animal to the point of being un-healthy - 50/50 chance of surviving acclimation

Treat a un-healthy animal - You kill the Bad, at this point no Good is left - Animal is at least brought back to a level playing field - 50/50 chance ensues

Don't treat a healthy animal - Provide good husbandry - Let the animals immune system take care of any Bad - Animal sails through acclimation, and I've had stuff breed the same year -

It's not a hard process to fathom. Too many animals are killed with kindness, or through plain ignorance. Just my experiences................

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[VexalUntil]

I think the quarantine question has been answered fully (I agree: separate room for 60-90 days; IBD can show up years later), so let me comment on the WC aspect.

I personally avoid WC animals. It would have to be an EXCEPTIONAL animal for me to want to deal with the hassle. There are plenty of great looking Guyana boas available from established breeders. If you're looking to save time or money, you probably will, but you will most likely end up with a huge problem.

If you read the last chapter of Vin's book, I'm pretty sure he recommends against WC animals... I could be wrong, but that's the impression I got.

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	Inclusion Body Disease IBD

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[AGActaeonia]

Eric...

You're the next thing to a legend in terms of imports. Renowned and respected. As such, I empathize with your point of view in this.

As to what I've suggested - as well as others - the bottom-line in terms of why I personally would avoid a WC snake - specifically a BCC - is my lack of experience.

I've mixed and rather violent feelings toward the notion of crating wild animals and driving them over hundreds of miles, across borders, packing them in cargo-holds on South American freighters or flying them across oceans, but none of that can be called to account in this particular thread.

What can be, however, is that WC animals can and most often are by my reckoning considered difficult to acclimate to captivity. There are those blossoms that make those like you look good, those with years of experience to guide their way with a difficult animal - should one be the case.

I quite imagine you've also connections, contacts with reliable importers, not to mention you of all people know how to pick 'em. All of your advertised snakes are quite admirable.

But there is a large difference in my mind between Eric Ivins and the rest of the world.

I was taught, and have long believed that unless you are an accomplished keeper with the experience necessary to deal with a difficult WC, you should avoid them at all costs.

Will a couple of Guyanans be a problem? Maybe, maybe not. But this isn't Russian-roulette, it's the life of an animal and the success of a hobbyist we're referring to, not success-rates; certainly no rates spoken between you and someone whom - no offense - admits they've no experience with WC animals.

That is my two-cents.

	Boa Constrictor Constrictor Red Tail Boa Constrictor (Boa constictor constrictor). Refers to "true" red tail boas such as the Guyana and Suriname locales.

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[EricIvins]

Originally Posted by AGActaeonia

Eric...
You're the next thing to a legend in terms of imports. Renowned and respected. As such, I empathize with your point of view in this.
As to what I've suggested - as well as others - the bottom-line in terms of why I personally would avoid a WC snake - specifically a BCC - is my lack of experience.
I've mixed and rather violent feelings toward the notion of crating wild animals and driving them over hundreds of miles, across borders, packing them in cargo-holds on South American freighters or flying them across oceans, but none of that can be called to account in this particular thread.
What can be, however, is that WC animals can and most often are by my reckoning considered difficult to acclimate to captivity. There are those blossoms that make those like you look good, those with years of experience to guide their way with a difficult animal - should one be the case.
I quite imagine you've also connections, contacts with reliable importers, not to mention you of all people know how to pick 'em. All of your advertised snakes are quite admirable.
But there is a large difference in my mind between Eric Ivins and the rest of the world.
I was taught, and have long believed that unless you are an accomplished keeper with the experience necessary to deal with a difficult WC, you should avoid them at all costs.
Will a couple of Guyanans be a problem? Maybe, maybe not. But this isn't Russian-roulette, it's the life of an animal and the success of a hobbyist we're referring to, not success-rates; certainly no rates spoken between you and someone whom - no offense - admits they've no experience with WC animals.
That is my two-cents.

See......The problem lies in the fact that these two animals in question would be coming from me, have been acclimated by me, guaranteed by me, and have been with me since I pulled them out of the crates. As of right now, they are no different than any CBB animal. Changes the situation a bit doesn't it?

	Boa Constrictor Constrictor Red Tail Boa Constrictor (Boa constictor constrictor). Refers to "true" red tail boas such as the Guyana and Suriname locales.

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[AGActaeonia]

Originally Posted by EricIvins

Changes the situation a bit doesn't it?

The only thing it changes is that - and I believe others will agree - the number of responses this thread would have received would have been a great deal fewer were your name mentioned initially. If it was, it's to my embarrassment that I missed it.

If it's Eric-approved, it's Eric-approved. Doesn't get much more cut and dry than that.

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[BoaNation]

Hi Eric. Didn't know you were on here!

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