Rats born without testicles???

Hairless · #1 (**permalink**) 07-19-2009, 10:59 PM

In the spring I start to increase rat production for the coming summer months when the boas are eating more. This spring I had two large 'female' rats that wouldn't produce for me. As time went on, the two females started to get very large...like male sized, so I checked them out and both of these rats were males without testicles.?

My rats are diverse color wise and purchased from several different locations.

-I have read and observed behavior where red squirrels chase and bite the tesitcles of male grey squirrels, but I'm not aware of this within the same ''type'' of squirrel or other rodents and I checked for scars to see if there was some kind of damage in the area where the testies should have been and found nothing. In hind sight, I should have checked to see if the testicles were undescended, but as large as the testies are on male rats you would think they would have a significant bulge in the area.

Thoughts? Ideas?

RayRay · #2 (**permalink**) 07-19-2009, 11:07 PM

They are probably cryptorchid. However, cryptorchid animals can probably still breed. They shouldn't be bred, as it's genetic. Some might not be able to breed, however. You can usually tell right away if you look at where the testicles are supposed to be. Sometimes there will be a lump in the abdomen. I have a rat that had one descended testicle, but he is a pet and I've had him neutered.

Rats are entirely different from squirrels and most of them will get along, especially if they are raised together. Male mice will often fight and inflict wounds on the rear ends of each other, but I monitor thousands of mice on a daily basis and have never witnessed any that had their testicles chewed off.

AGActaeonia · #3 (**permalink**) 07-19-2009, 11:35 PM

Cryptorchid sounds more likely than a result of inbreeding (with most cases of inbred rats I've seen involving facial disfigurement or abnormal extremities).

Are they overly aggressive? Without testicles, I would think the testosterone build-up would have them on edge. If they display normal behavior, I would palpate their lower bellies and attempt to feel out their testicles; however large normals' may be, they could be undersized, and this could also account for their lack of aggression - if none is in evidence.

RayRay · #4 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGActaeonia

Cryptorchid sounds more likely than a result of inbreeding (with most cases of inbred rats I've seen involving facial disfigurement or abnormal extremities).

Are they overly aggressive? Without testicles, I would think the testosterone build-up would have them on edge. If they display normal behavior, I would palpate their lower bellies and attempt to feel out their testicles; however large normals' may be, they could be undersized, and this could also account for their lack of aggression - if none is in evidence.

Not necessarily. There are plenty of instances of cryptorchidism in animals that are not closely inbred, especially dogs and cats. I work with inbred rodents for a living, and not one of them has been born cryptorchid. Of course there are other deformities, but that's a whole other ball park.

Palpating them would be a good idea though, especially if they are under developed.

AGActaeonia · #5 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGActaeonia

Cryptorchid sounds more likely than a result of inbreeding (with most cases of inbred rats I've seen involving facial disfigurement or abnormal extremities).

Didn't say they were inbred crytorchids, Ray.

RayRay · #6 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009, 12:22 AM

Sorry, I read that wrong. But I would tend to agree with you that they probably have under developed, undescended testicles. I've seen far weirder things though. Rodents are just weird any way.

AGActaeonia · #7 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009, 12:27 AM

How did you come to the conclusion they were males, Hairless?

Could they be hermaphrodites?

RayRay · #8 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009, 12:30 AM

That could be it. Either way, if you can't breed them, just kill them off and feed them to the snakes.

Hairless · #9 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGActaeonia

How did you come to the conclusion they were males, Hairless?
Could they be hermaphrodites?

They had the other important part. They were not hermaphrodites.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayRay

Either way, if you can't breed them, just kill them off and feed them to the snakes.

I keep the males away from the females to control timing of litters and the females have larger litters if you allow them a break until after they are done nursing a litter, so...I don't know if they could breed with females. I know the breeders males couldn't impregnate them. lol

They already joined the final step for their cycle in the food chain. I wish I had inspected them closer-maybe not quite as close and AGActaeonia suggested.

RayRay · #10 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009, 01:43 AM

At any rate, they either wouldn't have bred to a female, and if they did, they'd produce more freaks that would impact your colony. It's better that they are in someone's belly. :P

AGActaeonia · #11 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hairless

maybe not quite as close as AGActaeonia suggested.

You know me, buddy. Always ripe for a good conundrum.

Adrya · #12 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009, 06:02 PM

Whenever I was breeding rats I actually came across that problem... Rats that I thought were females were actually males, but their testicles never dropped.

RayRay · #13 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009, 07:20 PM

Oh, and did you know male rats can actually retract their testicles into their abdomens and hold them there?

Fun factoid for you.

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