Deceased boa shows several ulcers?

TrpnBils · #1 (**permalink**) 02-11-2009, 06:04 PM

My largest female BCI died about two months ago. The necropsy showed that she had six ulcers (the largest being about the size of a golf ball) in her intestines, and the vet has no idea why.

Some background: I got her at 4 years old with an unknown history. She had always been healthy for me, and I bred her last winter (she was 7 at the time, and about 23 pounds). In September, she had three babies (2 stillborn, one died an hour or two later), and laid 18 or 19 slugs. After that, she ate two large rats, waited two weeks, and then ate only one of her two rats. From that point on, she didn't eat again, her mood changed completely (hissing, lethargic, etc), and she never shed after giving birth.

I took her to the vet, he X-rayed her, and found some kind of mass on the film. It was over her uterus, so it was unclear if she had retained a slug or it was still part of the last meal that just happened to be in that area. The vet gave her the "all clear" and said that he couldn't find anything wrong with her. In mid-November, she went into shed, and then died on December 4th.

The necropsy showed that her uterus was clear ("fantastic looking" was the exact wording), and that she had six ulcers in her intestines. I hadn't planned on getting the necropsy done, so I stuck her in the freezer after she died. The vet called me (three times) the next day and said he wanted to open her up just for his own knowledge since she seemed healthy. Because she had bene frozen though, they couldn't do much in the way of bacterial cultures, etc. I guess he posted her X-rays and necropsy results (with pictures) on some vet forums and nobody there had any ideas either...

So here's the situation now. Her cage has been cleaned out since the day she died, and I'd like to move another one of my boas into it but I'm a little nervous about doing so without knowing what happened. I've bleached the cage, and I've had fecals done on every other snake in the room (they all came back clean).

What could have caused ulcers? I can't help but think that it somehow was related to her being bred (probably because of the added stress on her system messing with her immune system?) I've never had a problem with my snakes having parasites, and she got fed the same things some of my other snakes, so I think the food source was alright (f/t rats).

The bottom line is - I want to move my other snake into her cage, but I don't want him to end up having the same problems... can anybody offer any suggestions or advice?

-KB- · #2 (**permalink**) 02-11-2009, 06:09 PM

I don't know what to tell you, except that I am sorry for your loss, and happy to see you thinking all of the possibilities through before moving another boa into the cage.
.
I hope others here can be of more assistance. Try PM'ing BWsmith with a link to this thread, he could maybe help you. He is very knowledgeable.

Oroborous · #3 (**permalink**) 02-11-2009, 06:13 PM

I have no advice really, though I imagine if you bleached the cage and let it air out a week or so it should have killed any bacteria.
It sounds like these ulcers must have started before you got her and steadily got worse. Hopefully that kinda thing is not contagious.
I think it'd be safe to move another boa into her cage now.
And I'm sorry for your loss, that's a rough thing to deal with.

TrpnBils · #4 (**permalink**) 02-11-2009, 06:56 PM

the progression of it was odd though... she was perfectly healthy, active, and ate like a champ from the time I got her right up until the time she was bred, which is what makes me think the two events are related.

My major concern is IBD because of how varied the symptoms can be. In that same room, I have a burmese and another redtail along with some colubrids, so obviously I don't want there to be any sort of crossover. After all, it would be another redtail that I'd be moving into her old cage. Would IBD possibly cause something like this? I never saw any of the stargazing, etc that is normally associated with it, but again, the symptoms can be so varied that it's hard for me to really put it out of my mind. Another thing that's been causing me to think twice about IBD is some stuff I read recently about new research surrounding the disease... something about how it looks as though redtails may naturally carry it for years without it being noticeable.

Worst case scenario: If it was IBD, there's no way it could survive outside of a living body for that long and still be active in the cage, right?

skiploder · #5 (**permalink**) 02-12-2009, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrpnBils

My largest female BCI died about two months ago. The necropsy showed that she had six ulcers (the largest being about the size of a golf ball) in her intestines, and the vet has no idea why.
Some background: I got her at 4 years old with an unknown history. She had always been healthy for me, and I bred her last winter (she was 7 at the time, and about 23 pounds). In September, she had three babies (2 stillborn, one died an hour or two later), and laid 18 or 19 slugs. After that, she ate two large rats, waited two weeks, and then ate only one of her two rats. From that point on, she didn't eat again, her mood changed completely (hissing, lethargic, etc), and she never shed after giving birth.
I took her to the vet, he X-rayed her, and found some kind of mass on the film. It was over her uterus, so it was unclear if she had retained a slug or it was still part of the last meal that just happened to be in that area. The vet gave her the "all clear" and said that he couldn't find anything wrong with her. In mid-November, she went into shed, and then died on December 4th.
The necropsy showed that her uterus was clear ("fantastic looking" was the exact wording), and that she had six ulcers in her intestines. I hadn't planned on getting the necropsy done, so I stuck her in the freezer after she died. The vet called me (three times) the next day and said he wanted to open her up just for his own knowledge since she seemed healthy. Because she had bene frozen though, they couldn't do much in the way of bacterial cultures, etc. I guess he posted her X-rays and necropsy results (with pictures) on some vet forums and nobody there had any ideas either...
So here's the situation now. Her cage has been cleaned out since the day she died, and I'd like to move another one of my boas into it but I'm a little nervous about doing so without knowing what happened. I've bleached the cage, and I've had fecals done on every other snake in the room (they all came back clean).
What could have caused ulcers? I can't help but think that it somehow was related to her being bred (probably because of the added stress on her system messing with her immune system?) I've never had a problem with my snakes having parasites, and she got fed the same things some of my other snakes, so I think the food source was alright (f/t rats).
The bottom line is - I want to move my other snake into her cage, but I don't want him to end up having the same problems... can anybody offer any suggestions or advice?

I had a unicolor cribo that came to me infected with Entamoeba Invadens - a protozoal disease. It showed up during her quarantine period testing. It was treated successfully with metronidazole.

The vet told me that it could lead to serious ulcers in the digestive tract - especially the intestines - and that due to her relative absence of other symptoms, to keep an eye on her - that was three years ago and she's done just fine.

A couple of other notes from my log - (1) My vet tested because she had seen a recent outbreak of the disease. (2) She stated that in some cases, there are no symptoms whatsoever. (3) It is hard to detect in normal fecal testing.

Anyway, that's one idea.

TrpnBils · #6 (**permalink**) 02-12-2009, 02:33 PM

Do you happen to remember how they tested for it?

skiploder · #7 (**permalink**) 02-12-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrpnBils

Do you happen to remember how they tested for it?

A colonic wash.

The vet told me that it can be detected with fecal floats but since there are often a lack of clinical symptoms, small numbers of actual parasites shed in infected animals, the fact that the protozoa rapidly dies outside of the body and inconsistent shedding of the disease, you have to be lucky with the float.

I don't know if that will help, but I would guess that the lack of symptoms, and the severe ulceration of the intestines could point to E. Invadens. There are other things that might have shown up inthe necropsy that could reinforce this diagnosis that your Vet may be able to confirm.

I was told that his is not a "rare" affliction and that it's a fairly common intestinal parasite in reptiles. It might be worth asking your Vet if he has already ruled out E. Invadens for one reason or another.

I would think that since the disease fares so poorly out of the body of the host, that using bleach, chlorexedine, et al should effectively disinfect the cage. It is contagious, and you may want to consider having your other animals tested seeing as the disease can be relatively asymptomatic.

TrpnBils · #8 (**permalink**) 02-12-2009, 05:34 PM

One thing about the cleaners: I mentioned Nolvasan (chlorohexadine) to the vet, and he said that he'd use bleach in my situation because dilute bleach kills some stuff that chlorohexadine doesn't. I don't know specifically what that is, but in a case like this where I don't know what caused it I'm going to bleach it again just to be safe.

Her cage actually had a plywood floor with stick-on vinyl tiles (my dad made it...not my choice for a floor). I think I'm going to pull up the tiles and throw them away just in case anything might be lodged underneath the edges.

boaterr · #9 (**permalink**) 02-12-2009, 05:41 PM

Personally I would throw out the cage and buy another. If you do not know what caused it it seems risky to put anything else in that cage since makeing or buying a new cage is not really that expensive.

Advertisement