RTB went into epileptic seizures?

[marty.sjolund]

I'm a newb to the herpetology world, and have been excited ever since i got my beautiful 3mo. old baby red tail. When I got the snake as a gift, 4 months ago, I didn't know that some owners recommend a vet visit for a fecal and R.I. to find out if the snake carries any bacterial, viral, or neurological problems/defects..

The Rtb was kept in a 20 gallon aquarium with small brown bark (cedar?) bedding. Temperature was kept at ~90 daytime/Hot side of the aquarium, while the cooler side was kept at ~84. Humidity was Moderate/Temperate (60-70%)..

A couple of months ago, I fed my guy a larger fuzzy grey, he ate it with no problems and I observed a small bulge in his stomach. Two-three days later the bulge was gone. Two weeks later I fed him a white fuzzy mouse, which was about the same size as the grey. He regurgitated the mouse three days later. I waited one week for the next feeding. The next feeding was a very small fuzzy, right before the feeding I moved to a new house [the new location for the aquarium is in a room with no windows, and has a reptile light on 10hrs/day]. Again, he regurgitated the fuzzy one day later. I wasn't sure if humidity was a problem or if he was beginning the shedding process, so I forced him to swim in a bowl of luke warm water for 20-30 mins. He seemed very happy to be clean and looked very healthy for the next two days. . .

I came home from work at 4PM, and noticed Senor Cervantes was lying around like he normally would. I opened his screen and went to touch his back when all of a sudden he twitched very violently (which caused me to pull my hand away), thrusted his head straight up in the air with his mouth open, then immediately turned his head toward the ground and did a nose dive right into the bark. He then started, what I will describe as, seizuring. I thought at first he might have been choking, so I put on my leather gloves and forced his mouth open to make sure there was no bark in his mouth, I found one little piece (from when he nose-dived), and i removed it. I put him back in his cage, and it looked as if all the seizures had stopped for the time being. I checked on him again after one hour and noticed half of his body was in his water bowl, while his top part of the body was out of the water and overturned on to his back. The next couple of hours I observed him acting extremely skittish and wanting to hide underneath his tree-tent, and still shaking/twitching when I got close to him.

At 4AM, the little guy died. What, if anything, could I have done to prevent this, and does this sound like a neurological defect?

Any assistance would be appreciated.
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[natas]

I had a similar problem occur once while baby sitting a Albino Burmese Python. The snake was 4.5 ft male and was in good condition...no problems.

Anyway I took the guy out and put him in his feed box....gave him his dead rat and he gulped it up fine.

20 minutes later I decided to put him back in his cage. So I reach behind him and grab him...all of the sudden the snake started to shake viloently for 15-20 seconds...scared the crap out of me. All of the sudden he stayed still for over 5 minutes after he stopped shaking. Then after the 5 minutes he started acting normal.

I put him in his cage and checked on him every 30 minutes...he seemed fine. I took him to the vet the next day and the only thing the vet could conclude was that he had a seisure prolly from me catching him off guard. He said next time to be sure and wave my hand a little in front of him or give some sign after a feeding that I am there so I don't surprise him. The doctor also said that the snake's genetics were prolly the cause of this. The albino's are alot weaker genetically and are more vulnerable to problems....he even said that inbreeding could be a factor.

The snake is now about 7ft long and has never had this problem since...but man was it scary.

One thing to check is for mites. Sometimes mites can cause some weird problems with snakes. I would also take the snake to a vet if your paranoid about all of this.
[addsig]

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

[eddie]

Hey Marty,
Yes it does sound nuerological, as in a case of IBD, which is an incurable disease that there is very littleknown about, other than it kills.

The only 100% way to know for sure is to get a good reptile vet to do a necropsy on it.
There is no test for IBD at this time except for necropsy...


With all the things you said, such as the regurges and the uncontrollable movements, it sounds like it to me.

If you have any other herps in your house, get them into a separate room from where the other one was.
Don't use its cage for a new herp untill you can sanatize it completely. Everything, all the fixtures, water bowl, lamps etc, EVERYTHING!
The transmission of IBD is unknown also, so clean all.
I also recommend NOT getting another one from that source untill you get results back from the necropsy, just in case.

Welcome to Redtail, just wish it could have been on a happier note.....

[addsig]

	Inclusion Body Disease IBD

[Reticu-Lady]

What an absolutly horrid experience for you (and him)!!! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif[/img] How frightening. I am not that sure of what may have caused all that, but a few thoughts come to mind, now remember, I may be totaly off track here, but...
Had he been treated for mites that you know of? Reason being, I had a baby burm do that once after the petshop I got her from 'treated' all the snakes for mites with pet strips. (The mites lived, she didn't).
Another thought, horrible as it may be, could it possibley have been IBD? Definitly worth asking someone with more experience than I.
Also, did you save the poor little body for a necropsy? A good reptile vet might be able to find something on a post mortem exam. (If you save the body, do not freeze it, put it in a butter tub in the refrigerator, stool sample, too, if he left one).
If the bark in his cage was cedar, that could be a contributing factor as well, cedar (and pine) bark has an oil which is toxic to reptiles. Cedar should never be used for animal bedding. Not even dogs, I have had a dog end up very sick when bedded on cedar. (Not a small dog either, an adult doberman). Please don't use cedar or pine for your reptiles or small animals. Nasty stuff.

I am so deeply sorry for the loss of your Senor Cervantes. (I love that name, what does it mean?). Please don't be too discouraged about keeping snakes in the future. We just need to find out what happened and try again.
Hugs to you. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif[/img]
[addsig]

	Inclusion Body Disease IBD

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

[Reticu-Lady]

Amazing how fast you all post here, when I wrote mine, there weren't any replies, all of a sudden there are two ahead of mine. *shakes head* You people are amazing! Gotta love y'all
[addsig]

Umm Guy/gals..Isn't it the CEDAR that can kill a snake ? I'm always mixing the cedar and cypress with each other when talking. One of the reasons I stay away from it as a substrate for snakes.
JUls, Naja..anyone ??? Can ya clarify on this please ?

Sorry to hear about the loss of your snake [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif[/img]
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[marty.sjolund]

Unfortunately, I didn't keep the body..

I have thrown away all the old bedding, and sanitized the aquarium setup.. Getting it ready for a new brazilian rainbow or maybe a sulaweisi retic.

Yeah, it's a complete bummer that this beautiful CRTB had to go through this. From talking to people around Houston, the dealer my friend purchased this snake from is highly reputable. ???


CAn someone tell me more about this IBD? What does it stand for?

And, thank you for the quick feedback!



[addsig]

	Inclusion Body Disease IBD

[natas]

Go to Home Medications and Cures for Common Illnesses and Injuries of Reptiles (just click on the link).

Julius one of our members wrote this article up....its got a little bit of info about IBD in there [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]


Speaking of which...we should probally make a caresheet or something similar explaining IBD....any takers? If so go to our Work In Progress Forum and start it out there.
[addsig]

	Inclusion Body Disease IBD

Thanx Justme ! If I wasn't multi-tasking I would have seen your reply before I did mine.
I wouldn't think it was the IBD thing going on here due to what you were using as a substrate [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
As for a new snake..Please take the time to research what you want to get for one. I see you have mentioned a BRB and a retic here. Neither are a snake I would reccomend for a new person to the herp world to be considering to keep. Which is what I gather from your posting.
Ask questions and search around the site.. you will find lots of information in relation to such on the site..

oh yeah...


WELCOME TO REDTAILBOA.NET!!!
[addsig]

	Inclusion Body Disease IBD

[marty.sjolund]

>>As for a new snake..Please take the time to research what you want to get for one. I see you have mentioned a BRB and a retic here. Neither are a snake I would reccomend for a new person to the herp world to be considering to keep. Which is what I gather from your posting.

Lori:
What do you mean "to be considering to keep"? Of course I want to keep these snakes and make them part of my family, as long as they keep living.


Natas: I read the article you posted. If the snake was born with this disease, would the other snakes from the batch necessarily exhibit the same neurological traits, and possibly death too?



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	Shane The Man, The Myth, The Mystery that is RTB!!!