HELP! Burm having muscle spasms!!!

driftwooddodgeman · #1 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 02:22 AM

Hi, Guys...I'm worried. I just wiped my Burm down with Mite spray due to a recently discovered mite infestation. He went to take a sip of water, and started having back spasms, arching his back, noticeably straining, flipping upside down from his head to about a third way down, and basically acting like he had NO control over his muscles. I'm VERY scared right now!! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif[/img] I just went to fill his other water bowl, and as soon as he dipped himself in it, he started doing the same thing...arching his back and such. He *appears* to be normal now, but he went back to normal the first time, too...I really don't know WHAT to do...any help???? [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img]
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Shadrach · #2 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 02:34 AM

What kind of mite spray??
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driftwooddodgeman · #3 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 02:37 AM

it's Ultra-Care Mite and Lice Bird Spray. The guy said it didn't matter what the label said, it contained the same ingredients as the reptile ones. I've used it on my other snakes, with no ill effects like this...
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driftwooddodgeman · #4 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 04:12 AM

well...he appears to be doing fine now...I still would like some input though as to what may have caused this. I don't think he inhaled any of the spray, but it's definitely a possibility, as I was applying it under his chin... Anyway, he's just cruisin' around his cage now, maybe a little mad at me for "torturing" him trying to get at the mites under his chin scales...was pretty hard getting him to keep his head upside down...[img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]
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eddie · #5 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 04:25 AM

Give us the list of active ingredients.
Also, get the water bowl out and thoroughly disenfect and wash it out as he prolly got the chems in it while drinking.
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phaedrus · #6 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 04:34 AM

Was the water like, really cold? Would that cause him to "flip" out? Ya know, the reptile version of a human brain freeze when we super drink slurpees? Just throwing out ideas. You had mentioned that you had just filled his water bowl.
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driftwooddodgeman · #7 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 04:35 AM

>> Give us the list of active ingredients.
Also, get the water bowl out and thoroughly disenfect and wash it out as he prolly got the chems in it while drinking.

yeah, probably a good idea [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] I'll do that right after I post this...

Here's the ingredients:
pyrethrins...................................0.030%
Piperonyl Butoxide, Technical...0.300%
Inert Ingredients.....................99.670%

He told me the "Pyrethrins are the Mite killing ingredients...as long as they are present, anything will work" True?

driftwooddodgeman · #8 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 04:40 AM

>>Was the water like, really cold? Would that cause him to "flip" out? Ya know, the reptile version of a human brain freeze when we super drink slurpees? Just throwing out ideas. You had mentioned that you had just filled his water bowl.

No, I fill it with warmer water, usually room temp...it was REALLY weird/scary to see him act the way he did...thought he was having a seizure...
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phaedrus · #9 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 05:18 AM

Drift, do a search on "permethrin" which is the active ingredient for Proventomite and some others. Read the posts. Pyrethrin may be of the same family, but from what I understand, permethrin is not designed for direct skin contact. Does it say that it can be used directly on the snake?
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driftwooddodgeman · #10 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 07:08 AM

>>Drift, do a search on "permethrin" which is the active ingredient for Proventomite and some others. Read the posts. Pyrethrin may be of the same family, but from what I understand, permethrin is not designed for direct skin contact. Does it say that it can be used directly on the snake?

I had a question 'bout that. He also used the word "Permethrins" if I'm not mistaken, but the bottle he gave me says Pyrethrins, and says you can use it directly on birds...I am guessing if it's safe for bird skin, it's safe for snake skin...am I wrong? I'm gonna do a search for these two things and see what the differences/likenesses are...'cause he used both when talking to me, I think...I don't know... [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img] Anyway, I'll letcha know...
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driftwooddodgeman · #11 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 07:20 AM

OMG, this is frustrating!!!!! All I keep finding are freakin sites in French or German or something...NOTHING in English!! AAARRRGGGHHH!!! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img] Anyone happen to know the difference between Permethrin and Pyrethrin?
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driftwooddodgeman · #12 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 07:23 AM

OOOOKAY...Nevermind [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img] I just realized I was putting an unneccesary E on the end of those during my searches [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] ...didn't know it made THAT much of a difference. NOW I am finding the right sites...letcha know more when I get some info...

LdyDrgn · #13 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 07:29 AM

Just because something is so-called 'safe' for one animal, does not necessarily mean it is safe for another. Take Ivermectin for instance. Created as a de-wormer for cattle, swine, reindeer and bison. However, it can cause fatalities in dogs! It can be used on snakes, but NOT on vipers. If used on or around vipers, it kills them, and the stuff has to be diluted to use. Please please please be VERY careful when using pesticides around your snakes! Pet store people don't know it all, you CANNOT trust them! Same few may be knowledgeable, but the majority are idiots and will tell you anything just to get a sale.
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driftwooddodgeman · #14 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 07:33 AM

yeah, that's true...They will tell you anything for a sale. Well, after typing Permethrin and Pyrethrin the RIGHT way...I found basically that they are the same thing, and both were listed as "safe for skin use", such as the sprays and such. I want to get some Provent-A-Mite, or Black Knight but not sure where to get them...is online the only way? Anyway, I don't think I'm using this stuff anymore. I sprayed the substrate and let it dry before putting him in there, and I have done that with my other snakes, with no ill effects, but then again, I sprayed them directly also. I dunno...what's the favorite/most trusted brand/product on this site?

LdyDrgn · #15 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 08:24 AM

To be honest, everyone has their own preferred method/product. You really have to use them all, or at least form an educated opinion before ruling one method out. I used the oil and bleach method. Manged to get rid of the mites in one treatment, others like the sprays (Black Knight, Provent-a-Mite) and powders (Seven Dust). Granted that the method I like is more work, but for me it worked well. hehe.... not like I really have anything better to do..... [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] Hope you find a resolution soon. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
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dlamphere · #16 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 05:10 PM

They are not exactly the same. I can't remember which is which but one has a more lasting affect. Which means it will have a residue. I know this because when I had to treat lice (never want to do that again). One said you didn't have to re-treat because it stayed on, and the other you did have to retreat because after it aired, it went away. If you have the one that stays, you may want to wash your snake down REALLY well to get it off him because every time he gets into the water it will contaminate the water.
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eddie · #17 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 05:16 PM

Well ya really don't want to put ANY of the permethrin family directly on the animals.
It is commonly used in cat and dog flea control products, but they also have a much stronger resistance to the chems than reptiles.

You may have gotten lucky this time, only time will tell if there is any lasting nuerological effects from it.

In the future, use any of the similar chems, just like you would POM, as in removing the snake and its water bowl, and treating the cage, not the animal.
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CreepingDeath · #18 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 05:41 PM

next time ur snake has mites use soaking him in mineral oil, takes a couple of days to get the mite gone, thats what i did when my snake had mites, and now no more mites, and when the mites are gone give everything in is cage a good washing, so that they are gone for good, and besure to really clean the cage good before putting him back in.
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CreepingDeath · #19 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 05:46 PM

oh yeah almost forgot after soaking him is the mineral oil for a bite 10-20 mins is good then put him is a seprate dish of water so that he some of the oil comes off, but don't try getting the oil off completely because you can't then put him back and keep an eye on him for the mite when none are present then clean the cage out. it may take a couple of days,
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phaedrus · #20 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 05:47 PM

Drift, when I mentioned doing a search, I meant on the RTB forums.

Read this.

and this one too.

Hope is helps.
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