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Drax · #1 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 11:17 PM

hey all

just found out on Monday that one of the ball pythons we sold to a lady had IBD. she bought the snake on friday and on monday morning found the snake showing symptoms of IBD. she had the snake euthanised and our owner gave her credit for a new snake.

now in the same enclosure with the ball was another ball and a burmese python. the first ball python got sold prior to the one with IBD. so i have no idea if it did or did not have IBD until someone calls saying "uhh...my snake is looking at the sky and then just flops over on the ground. is this normal?" i checked on the burm and so far so good. knock on wood. anyway i gave the enclosure a really good cleaning with disenfectant and put the burm back in. also to my knowledge there aren't any mites in any of the cages. and i've told the other employees to keep an eye on him and not put any snakes in with him just to be safe.

anything else i need to know? oh IBD doesn't effect boas as quickly as in pythons right?
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#2 (**permalink**) 06-06-2002, 03:17 PM

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>anything else i need to know? oh IBD doesn't effect boas as quickly as in pythons right?</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

Probably every python in your shop will develop IBD. And yes, it does take a little longer for affect boas.

poopyty...

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najaboy · #3 (**permalink**) 06-06-2002, 11:15 PM

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> just found out on Monday that one of the ball pythons we sold to a lady had IBD. she bought the snake on friday and on monday morning found the snake showing symptoms of IBD. she had the snake euthanised and our owner gave her credit for a new snake.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
Out of curiosity, was the animal necropsied? If not, then no determination of IBD can be made. In a case such as this, symptoms are utterly meaningless, as any number of things can cause neurological deficit- including environmental factors (such as NoPest Strips). IBD is a very serious disease, but many of the suspected cases out there are not IBD.

As for the other two pythons... if we continue on the assumption of IBD, then they should be dead soon. Pythons are an atypical host for the virus, and that is why it affects them much differently than it does boas.

All in all though, you are taking the right course of action by crediting the customer and keeping an eye on the other snakes that were in the enclosure. Also let the employees know that it is important to observe proper hygeine in order to avoid cross-contaminating other enclosures.

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Drax · #4 (**permalink**) 06-13-2002, 04:26 AM

so far so good. the burm that was in with the ball python hasn't showed signs of IBD.
just to let you know how inept the rest of the employees are, i told everyone not to put any snakes in with the burm and watch it's behavior. simple enough right? the next day i found two more ball pythons in with the burm.

can IBD be spread to colubrids?
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najaboy · #5 (**permalink**) 06-13-2002, 05:29 AM

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>can IBD be spread to colubrids? </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
Inclusion bodies similar to those found in infected boids have been found in colubrids and viperids.

To the best of my knowledge though, the colubrid case was limited to a single California kingsnake.
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#6 (**permalink**) 06-15-2002, 08:25 PM

Yes I hate redundancy BUt here's goes anyway..
WAS THE SNAKE THAT DIED NECROPSIED AT ALL ? Who/what was the determining factor that the snake died from IBD ?
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Drax · #7 (**permalink**) 06-24-2002, 05:52 AM

oh sorry. i completely forgot about this post.

to my knowledge the snake was not necropsied. and the other snakes in the store are not showing signs of IBD. other problems are a diferent matter. let's see one BCI has a RI, a tegu has a broken leg, a water dragon has a bad nose rub, not eating, and is slowly dying, a viper boa is not eating, two chameleons are dehydrated, the frogs aren't getting enough food, a beardie has lost some of his tail and a couple fingers, but otherwise fine, and a leopard is dehydrated, not eating well, and has a bad scab on his lip were someone tried to pull of skin that wasn't ready to come off. there it think that about wraps up all that is wrong at the store.
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CheesenJamButty · #8 (**permalink**) 07-14-2002, 11:40 PM

[img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img] I thought IBD could take months or years to show in some cases, so keeping watch for a week or two may prove nothing.
That's why it's important to have the tests, especially if it may concern your business!
As others have said, there are other causes for the star gazing We, and a herp store owner we talked to, lost a snake because of overdose of pesticide strips (Vapona) in the atmosphere (snake was a hatchling) Check your staff didnt spray against bugs within the month previous.
We'll never use these again.

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eddie · #9 (**permalink**) 07-15-2002, 12:01 AM

In boas it takes a while some times, but in pythons it is usually a quick show.

There are several things that cause IBD like symptoms, and the only way to know for sure is with a necropsy.

More about IBD.
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najaboy · #10 (**permalink**) 07-15-2002, 01:41 AM

ChesenJamButty, IBD does not affect boas and pythons in the same way. The virus does not remain dormant in pythons, and the disease progresses rapidly. This is why pythons are often used as proverbial "canaries" to check for infection in boas.

As for testing, there is no conclusive test available to determine IBD exposure. Although tissue biopsies can be used to confirm a suspected case, they cannot be used to exclude IBD. In other words, a negative biopsy is esentially meaningless.
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