New 2 person rule head count - Page 5

morti · #81 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex322

The reason I got so mad about this? I wasn't mad til the point that I read someone post. I forget who posted it but It basically said that whoever doesn't follow the two person rule is a threat to this hobby.

I think that what you did was misread where I called a specific person a threat to the hobby. That sure seems to be what set you off after all.

Razeraze and I may not always see eye to eye on a number of issues, but we certainly seem to have something in common: People are always getting upset because of us.

I am pleased as pie that he is concerned enough to ensure that someone responsible gets this snake. Just because your idea of responsible differs from his idea of responsible is what really seems to get to you.

We all have different ethical codes. Please try to respect other people.

Rex322 · #82 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 05:10 AM

Morti your not the one who said that. I just checked to make sure. I'm sure I'm the only one who you've said anything to about respecting others though

Rachel SS · #83 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex322

Maybe I should straighten up some things here. The reason I brought the dog thing into this is because of the fact that they are as domesticTed as they are and I knew the response I would get from it. Yea they are to different Animals. Completly different. But they also are the same in the fact that they both will attack out of nowhere for some of the same reasons. Yea most the time dogs are fine and calm but not always. My burm is always calm too does that mean he won't attack? Dogs kill too and the fact that all of you think the way about snakes but not about a large dogs shows that you are all ignorant to a point. Different animals but same dangers to an extent.

The reason I got so mad about this? I wasn't mad til the point that I read someone post. I forget who posted it but It basically said that whoever doesn't follow the two person rule is a threat to this hobby. That offends me as I don't follow the two person rule. And honestly with a calm snake that I have interacted with since it was a hatchling that has no signs of occasional defensive behavior I will not follow the two person rule unless the snake outweighs what I'm comfortable with lifting and moving around.

Raze while I see your point and the good I intentions in this thread. I honestly do. But why was the other thread closed? Wasn't it for the fighting and other junk? So you reopen it? I'm sure there's other ways you could of went about this. Surely you knew it would cause this kind of crap.

What I think is funny is that you deny good responsible keepers a snake just because you almost got killed by a snake through your ignorance. Regardless of the size of your snake you should always be aware of your surroundings and you wernt. Everybody makes mistakes. But not everybody should be judged on your ignorance.

How is it you make perfect sense about animals being unpredictable and in the SAME breath you say that YOU and YOUR snake are the exception to the rule?

spix14 · #84 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex322

Maybe I should straighten up some things here. The reason I brought the dog thing into this is because of the fact that they are as domesticTed as they are and I knew the response I would get from it. Yea they are to different Animals. Completly different. But they also are the same in the fact that they both will attack out of nowhere for some of the same reasons. Yea most the time dogs are fine and calm but not always. My burm is always calm too does that mean he won't attack? Dogs kill too and the fact that all of you think the way about snakes but not about a large dogs shows that you are all ignorant to a point. Different animals but same dangers to an extent.

The reason I got so mad about this? I wasn't mad til the point that I read someone post. I forget who posted it but It basically said that whoever doesn't follow the two person rule is a threat to this hobby. That offends me as I don't follow the two person rule. And honestly with a calm snake that I have interacted with since it was a hatchling that has no signs of occasional defensive behavior I will not follow the two person rule unless the snake outweighs what I'm comfortable with lifting and moving around.

Raze while I see your point and the good I intentions in this thread. I honestly do. But why was the other thread closed? Wasn't it for the fighting and other junk? So you reopen it? I'm sure there's other ways you could of went about this. Surely you knew it would cause this kind of crap.

What I think is funny is that you deny good responsible keepers a snake just because you almost got killed by a snake through your ignorance. Regardless of the size of your snake you should always be aware of your surroundings and you wernt. Everybody makes mistakes. But not everybody should be judged on your ignorance.

So, I'm curious. Are you saying you don't need to follow the two person rule because you're big and strong enough to get a huge snake off of you by yourself, or because you think you know your snake well enough to be able to predict his behavior?

Rex322 · #85 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 05:57 AM

Well that's certainly not the way I ment got it to come off. Me and my snake are not an exception. What I ment to say is I've watched and studied this snake for all but one month of it's life. I've had numerous snakes in the past both calm and super aggressive. I've been bit more times than I can count as I'm sure most of us have. I can tell when their having a bad day for the most part. Not always as I'm only human but for the most part I can. I can tell when he is starting to get irritated which usually is only when there's a bunch of people around him touching him petting him and everything else. I'm not trying to say nothing will every happen. Just trying to point out that alot of bad things can be avoided by simply paying attention.

If I were to follow the two person rule than homers cage would probably be dirty most the time. He wouldn't be fed anywhere near on time. He would have to go with out water once in a while. And he would only be held a few times a year. I don't have alot of people that are willing to be around him when he's out as I don't know alot of people who have alot of free time to help me everytime I would need it if I were to follow the two person rule. Homer is MY responsibiltity not my friends. I bought him with the full intent of me raising and caring for him and not me and my friends. I don't know alot of people around where I live that are into snakes let alone giant snakes. Or at least large snakes such as homer. Therefore I can not always find help with him. Now because of the lack of help does that mean I should find a new home for homer despite the fact that I know what I
doing and overly cautious about it? Because of this I'm a threat to this hobby?

Rachel SS · #86 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 06:01 AM

There are ways around living alone and having a giant snake. Build your own enclosure with a separate area for feeding, you can clean the other part of the enclosure while the snake is eating.

I never said you were a threat to this hobby, but I do think it's extremely dangerous. Maybe I'm overly paranoid, but the thought of holding a 12 foot snake alone, whether i'm five feet tall or ten, is still dangerous.

Rex322 · #87 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 06:13 AM

It's about as dangerous as you make it. If you pay attention to the snake for the most part I find you can notice things go make you second guess it. There are safety type things I follow to prevent such a thing. I never let him around my neck unless people are around. When I take him out I put him out I put him on the floor. I don't let his head near my face and I always no where it's at. It can be done safely. While 13' is. Big heavy snake it's easily manageable for me as I am not the smallest guy. I'm not the strongest either but I can manage him easily. I won't ever let him wrap around two limbs at once such as an arm and a leg both legs or both arms. I make sure to have my arms free. I also won't let him wrap around my torso so that in the event it does happen he can't cut off my breathing so easily. Is all this fool proof and gaurenteed that nothing will happen? No not by any means. But to me it's the safest way to do it with no one around and it's what I've been doing for years and it's been working fine for me. And Rachel you weren't the one who said that so nothing was ment to imply that you said it and if I did I'm sorry

dhonaker · #88 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rachel SS

There are ways around living alone and having a giant snake. Build your own enclosure with a separate area for feeding, you can clean the other part of the enclosure while the snake is eating.

I never said you were a threat to this hobby, but I do think it's extremely dangerous. Maybe I'm overly paranoid, but the thought of holding a 12 foot snake alone, whether i'm five feet tall or ten, is still dangerous.

That is the thing a 12 foot snake may be big to you but not others I have had giants all my life my first snake was a burm when I was 15 it's a mater of knowing the snake and your capabilties there is no need to talk bad about people that don't fallow the same rules as you

razeraze · #89 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 10:27 PM

Yeah I never let any snake around my neck, my boa was on my shoulders and it happen in a split second like the saying says, "when seconds count help is just minutes away". And I will definitely judge people by my experience, if not wearing a seat belt almost got me killed, I would not be lending my car to anyone who refuse to wear a seat belt because they know the car and the roads or have been driving for 40 years. Nope my experience judges who I trust.

Back to the dog thing since there seems to be complete disregard for the laws of probability, apparently nobody here is a gambler. A social creature like a dog attacking and killing someone is like winning the lottery, for the amount of dogs in contact with people the behavior is relatively predictable and the rare violent occasion is not a high probability. You can play lotto your whole life and never win, now with an unsocial creature like a large constrictor it is more of a slot machine probability eventually someone is going to win the asphyxiation jackpot the only thing saving the reptile industry from record numbers off attacks (like dogs) is the small amount of giant keepers and the responsible amount of giant keepers. Put a giant snake in every house that owns a pitbull or doberman and death by constrictor numbers would go through the roof. Probability people, apples to apples. Are dogs dangerous, yes for a few lucky lotto winners compared to all the lotto players, are giant reptiles dangerous, you bet your bottom and there are more winners with fewer players.

Rex322 · #90 (**permalink**) 03-11-2010, 03:27 AM

So because you don't pay attention to your surroundings that means everyone else who handles large snakes doesn't pay attention to their surroundings and thei not careful enough to do it alone? My point is no offense but your incident you had was your fault and not the snakes

Icicle · #91 (**permalink**) 03-11-2010, 03:40 AM

lets not start attacking people.

Rex322 · #92 (**permalink**) 03-11-2010, 03:44 AM

I'm not attacking him. No offense is ment by that post. If I was attacking him I would of left the no offense part out of it. It's simply an opinion on the matter. Am I not allowed to share my opinion?

spix14 · #93 (**permalink**) 03-11-2010, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex322

I'm not attacking him. No offense is ment by that post. If I was attacking him I would of left the no offense part out of it. It's simply an opinion on the matter. Am I not allowed to share my opinion?

Your opinion seems to be that you can tell what a snake will do from one minute to the next, which to me seems emphatically wrong.

But, you know what they say about opinions...

Rex322 · #94 (**permalink**) 03-11-2010, 04:00 AM

You ccant ever tell what any animal is gonna do. My opinion is that it is possible to handle a large snake. Large with in reason that is. Without the two person rule as long as you can move the snake around comfortably. Now obviously I'm gonna agree that you should have at least two people present when working with a snake 15 ft or bigger. But honestly a 13ft snake is alot of snake and is strong as all heck. But it's not impossible to safely handle it alone.

So let's get your opinion on this. Homer peed. I need to clean his cage but there's no one that can help me with him right now. Do I leave him to lay in his feces all night and wait until I can find someone who can. Or do I just clean it like I always do? What would you do

Stargazer · #95 (**permalink**) 03-11-2010, 04:06 AM

This is why it's good to think about these things before the purchase of a large snake. I know buying two boas that could grow to 9 or 10 feet was probably not the most practical thing for me. If I don't have someone around to be in the room when I handle them, I will have to find new homes for them.

spix14 · #96 (**permalink**) 03-11-2010, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex322

You ccant ever tell what any animal is gonna do. My opinion is that it is possible to handle a large snake. Large with in reason that is. Without the two person rule as long as you can move the snake around comfortably. Now obviously I'm gonna agree that you should have at least two people present when working with a snake 15 ft or bigger. But honestly a 13ft snake is alot of snake and is strong as all heck. But it's not impossible to safely handle it alone.

So let's get your opinion on this. Homer peed. I need to clean his cage but there's no one that can help me with him right now. Do I leave him to lay in his feces all night and wait until I can find someone who can. Or do I just clean it like I always do? What would you do

It's hard to say without knowing what your setup for him is like. Ideally I would say have some kind of barrier you could slide into the cage so that you could reach into the cage and clean without having to get the snake out alone. Similar to the way some venomous keepers do it. I have to do this every once in a while with my retic if he's just eaten and I need to change his water or something. He stays in food mode for a good 24 hours. He's not big enough to be a danger yet (barring freak accidents) but I sure don't want an armful of snake teeth either.

How old is Homer? If he's 13 feet now, and he grows 3 more feet, then what will you do?

Rex322 · #97 (**permalink**) 03-11-2010, 04:15 AM

Homer will be 5 this June. I'm pretty sure he won't grow another 2ft lol. But you never know. If he does well I will make sure to have someone around when needs be if I need it. I should of been more clear actually. If I feel comfortable with the snake I'm working with and that I can handle it no problem then I will continue to do so. More than likely though I would try to have someone around.

Star when I bought homer I had a friend who was into them as much as I was and was gonna help me with it. Things have changed and I'm not gonna go into details with what happened but that friend aint here anymore. And I'm sorry I'm not gonna let homer go to someone else because I am so attached to this snake that I would not even give it to a zoo because I wanna be sure that he is being taken care of

Stargazer · #98 (**permalink**) 03-11-2010, 04:19 AM

I understand, Rex. I bought mine with the intention that I'd be living with a roommate or boyfriend by now. I never imagined the economy would take a turn and I'd be trapped in a condo that I can't have roommates at. I will go to great lengths to keep my snakes. But if they get too big for me, I will not feel comfortable handling them with no one around. I have neighbors and friends, but none of them would touch a snake.

norm · #99 (**permalink**) 03-11-2010, 04:19 AM

My 2 cents:

Six feet is probably a little small for me to require two feet, in general. There are six foot corn snakes that couldn't kill a kitten. That being said, a thick boa around your neck would definitely put you out. I start to get nervous/careful more around the 10 foot size, burms, retics, etc. That is a snake than can certainly take you down.

Rachel SS · #**100** (**permalink**) 03-11-2010, 04:22 AM

My question now is, someone who has never dealt with large constrictors (Burms, condas, afrocks, retics, etc) wants to get one and they live alone. They read your post that you handle your 13 foot burm by yourself. Do you advise them to stick to the two person rule since it's a big snake? Or do you not say anything because it would be hypocritical?

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