New 2 person rule head count - Page 4

Tom · #61 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 04:50 AM

I have posted this before but I will post it again. What I have to say about big snakes.

One of the most important things we can do for our reptiles and ourselves is to educate ourselves on their care and proper handling of any reptile. Big constrictors are very powerful snakes. I guarantee they are stronger than most people think. I trust all my big snakes, even around my kids. But my kids and I also respect them even more than we trust them. I always thought that I would be able to pull a snake off of me if it ever tried to constrict me. After handling a couple of my large constrictors, who are only holding on to me to feel safe, I'm convinced I would never be able to pull one of them off of me, if it's intent was to kill. Animal planet reported a test that determined an 18-foot-long snake applies pressure equal to about 12 pounds per square inch. That doesn't sound like a allot per inch, but if you figure your arm is about 12 inches in circumference, and a snake that is 6 inches wide wraps around your arm once, that's 864lbs of pressure on your arm with one coil. Assuming most snakes coil at least 3-4 times, do you think you could get enough people in the same room to pull it off of you? I don't have that many friends and my wife would rather collect the insurance money. LOL

I believe in the 8 foot rule rather than a 6 foot rule but I do see where Razz and some other people have there points about newbie's. I do handle my 15 foot retic by myself sometimes but I have had boas and pythons for over 34 years now and I feel I can read / sense there mood and I know when to leave them alone. I don't know how I know but I have always been able to tell how they feel. The 12 to 15 time I have been bitten in the last 34 years I knew every time I was going to get bit before it even happened.

All snake have a very good scene of smell and they learn what is a food source and what is not. They do know human scent is not a food source and I believe my snakes think the same about my dogs after sometime. When I first got Tigger my retic she would follow my dogs around the room when they went near her cage as if she wanted to eat them but after about 6 to 8 months she did not do this any more. She does not even give them a second look any more. There dog hair is all over the house and me sometimes. So I believe all snake big or small do get use to having cretin scents around and consider them safe and not a threat or a food source. I have also noticed my boas and pythons seem more calm around me then when someone else is holding them. I also believe they can tell the difference between humans by are scent. They are smarter than most people think.

Everyone remember - we were all new to this once...so don't get all upset with a newbie or anyone, just answer their questions best you can. I bet most of you even thought you would have no trouble handling big snakes or any large reptiles when you first stared owning reptiles. Most of you would get defensive too if someone told you that you knew nothing and should not own one. If that was the case I should have never got my first boa when I was 11 years old.

Take care
Tom

reticguy69 · #62 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 04:52 AM

im glad i got in a post before this one gets closed. i dont always make it. hahahahaha

jake_brownell2004 · #63 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiploder

Your post is the first bit of drama on this thread...........why get so worked up over an on-line argument?

you have a point. i only get mad when im insulted online lol but not something like this haha. people will do what they think is right and there is no changeing them. This may sound bad but ill take snakes over people anyday. they dont talk crap and start drama all the time. I think more then one of you can agree with that lol

Amazon · #64 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 04:58 AM

They may not talk crap, but they sure seem to make a lot of it sometimes!!!

jake_brownell2004 · #65 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazon

They may not talk crap, but they sure seem to make a lot of it sometimes!!!

aint that the truth woot

Stargazer · #66 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 05:05 AM

There are 24 people viewing this thread. That must be a record or something. Wow!

I took Veronica out today for the first time in a week. She squeezed my arm so tightly, she almost cut off the circulation. I don't want to imagine her doing that to my neck when I'm not expecting it.

jake_brownell2004 · #67 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 05:22 AM

i held my friend boa today. i picked it up for the guy from fugly. had sucks a grip on my hand it turnd. hes almost 7 foos and 8 years old and very very stong puppy dog lol

Rachel SS · #68 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 05:27 AM

It's incredibly stupid to think your snake is predictable 100% of the time. They're wild animals, you just hold them captive in your home. There is no guarantee you will not be bitten and constricted if that snake gets irritated by you.

Why take the chance?

Rachel SS · #69 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 05:28 AM

and comparing dogs and snakes is like comparing apples and oranges. They're two COMPLETELY different things.

Stargazer · #70 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rachel SS

It's incredibly stupid to think your snake is predictable 100% of the time. They're wild animals, you just hold them captive in your home. There is no guarantee you will not be bitten and constricted if that snake gets irritated by you.
Why take the chance?

I wouldn't say "stupid" (for the sake of the ensuing drama....). I would call it "complacent." Anyone, even someone extremely intelligent, can become complacent. That's why we have the loose 6' rule to follow, at our discretion.

Rachel SS · #71 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stargazer

I wouldn't say "stupid" (for the sake of the ensuing drama....). I would call it "complacent." Anyone, even someone extremely intelligent, can become complacent. That's why we have the loose 6' rule to follow, at our discretion.

Disagree. It's stupid. If you own large constrictors, the unpredictability is part of the package. No one cares when a ball python bites, but a retic or an afrock bite isn't going to be the same thing. Two snakes that can kill human beings and people CHOOSE to be negligent?

Rachel SS · #72 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 05:40 AM

one of my friends, who is 5'2 maybe? was pulling out her red tail. Her roommate was home but the snake tweaked out and started constricting around her. She panicked. It happens. The snake is maybe 7 feet? but it's a big snake for someone her size. And people panic in those situations. Some people fight, some people freeze up.

jake_brownell2004 · #73 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 05:59 AM

anything can happen. its in there nature to defend them slefes if they feal they have to. some people get lucky and it never happens. then there some people that get the short end of the stick.

Rachel SS · #74 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jake_brownell2004

anything can happen. its in there nature to defend them slefes if they feal they have to. some people get lucky and it never happens. then there some people that get the short end of the stick.

Exactly.

Icicle · #75 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 08:13 AM

Just a friendly reminder, if a snake does squeeze you, unwrap starting at the tail.
And yes I read that someplace on here.

Hairless · #76 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongoose5971

Always. And I'm with Morti--those who don't are putting our hobby at risk.

I don't think Morti said that at all...

A creature (boa) that has not caused one human death ever in an act of aggression or self defense, ......and anyone handling one over 6 feet is putting our hobby at risk?

Seriously? More people have been killed by meteor strikes. Maybe we should all use heavy armor plated umbrellas...

I'm not putting anyone or anything at risk when handling my six, seven or even eight feet boas alone, nor am I in fear of my life while doing so.

Rachel SS · #77 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hairless

I don't think Morti said that at all...
A creature (boa) that has not caused one human death ever in an act of aggression or self defense, ......and anyone handling one over 6 feet is putting our hobby at risk?

Seriously? More people have been killed by meteor strikes. Maybe we should all use heavy armor plated umbrellas...
I'm not putting anyone or anything at risk when handling my six, seven or even eight feet boas alone, nor am I in fear of my life while doing so.

I don't really think most boas are the problem. I think much of it depends on the size of the handler personally (with boas), but specifically burms, african rock pythons, and retics shouldn't be handled alone.

Sakara · #78 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 01:43 PM

the only way I can see a boa being a threat is if it with a small child or a smaller sized person. I can understand that a 5 foot person may want some extra help with a 7-8foot boa. and if you leave your small child alone or with access to your snakes, YOU are the idiot. even my yearling boas are under constant watch with my son. a 3-4 foot boa around a childs neck could be a bad thing. which is also why if we do have kids, they as well need to be taught proper precautions with our animals and taught to never try to handle certain animals without supervision. Ethan is not allowed in the snake room without myself or Ryan. and if he wants a snake out he will come ask us. even when he's a teenager, he may be allowed to get the boas out by himself, but mom will always have the burm/retics cage keys

razeraze · #79 (**permalink**) 03-09-2010, 09:25 PM

Wow, What a post. Thank you all for participating. Yes there was a hidden agenda to this post any many of you were contacted about it so thank you for your PMs. The agenda can now go public as I have made my list of those who met my basic requirement. As all of you know I adopt large reptiles, well while looking for a new giant lizard I was contacted about a couple of tiger retics that needed homes. My network of giant keepers is quite small so I turned here, but with had one requirement in mind, the two person rule.

Now as far as the debate, yes I almost was choked out by a boa I let rest on my shoulders when I was home alone (young and naive). The boa was 7 feet 30 lbs at the time. So that helped me stick to a strict 2 person rule. Every time I hear of a death of a human from an animal it is always the same story, "the animal never acted out before", and if I am going to house an animal with someone I do not allow that complacency. Anyone remember the recent primate story, "but it was so gentle and lovable" before that whole violent attack thingie.

Dog and snake junk. Two different brains, two different lifestyles. Both are trainable but only one is a pack animal or even remotely sociable and it is not the snake. So if we are to compare apples to apples, crocodiles are far more sociable animals than snakes, they live in a hierarchy, have frontal lobes for processing rudimentary emotions and even have mating rituals that appear tender and almost romantic. That in mind who here would handle a 15 foot croc alone

or let your kids handle it? Or lets go into a more evolved but still in the same danger level as a large constrictor. Everyone has heard of the anaconda nickname Matora or bull eater, so lets look at the bull. Who here would handle a bull alone with no one in calling distance? Again everyone let's keep apples to apples.

Rex322 · #80 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 04:43 AM

Maybe I should straighten up some things here. The reason I brought the dog thing into this is because of the fact that they are as domesticTed as they are and I knew the response I would get from it. Yea they are to different Animals. Completly different. But they also are the same in the fact that they both will attack out of nowhere for some of the same reasons. Yea most the time dogs are fine and calm but not always. My burm is always calm too does that mean he won't attack? Dogs kill too and the fact that all of you think the way about snakes but not about a large dogs shows that you are all ignorant to a point. Different animals but same dangers to an extent.

The reason I got so mad about this? I wasn't mad til the point that I read someone post. I forget who posted it but It basically said that whoever doesn't follow the two person rule is a threat to this hobby. That offends me as I don't follow the two person rule. And honestly with a calm snake that I have interacted with since it was a hatchling that has no signs of occasional defensive behavior I will not follow the two person rule unless the snake outweighs what I'm comfortable with lifting and moving around.

Raze while I see your point and the good I intentions in this thread. I honestly do. But why was the other thread closed? Wasn't it for the fighting and other junk? So you reopen it? I'm sure there's other ways you could of went about this. Surely you knew it would cause this kind of crap.

What I think is funny is that you deny good responsible keepers a snake just because you almost got killed by a snake through your ignorance. Regardless of the size of your snake you should always be aware of your surroundings and you wernt. Everybody makes mistakes. But not everybody should be judged on your ignorance.

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