Borneo bat eater

[SnakeCollector]

I never see any for sale, are they really that hard to breed...or sale?
Except for the one at the local pet store hes prob between 8 and 10 ft and has been there ever since ive been going there which is about a year probably, they are selling it for i think about $2000.

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[BWSmith]

They are not real snakes. They are useless hybrid crap with one of the dumbest names I have ever heard.

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[SnakeCollector]

Yeah i know they are a cross between retic and uhhh burm right? Im just wondering why almost nobody has them and my local pet store does... i think they are awesome snakes but i dont support the hybrid breeding so i would never buy one not that i could afford one anyways aha.

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[Rex322]

dont think bw could of said it better. not alot of people agree with hybrids, and not alot of people who have the money for them would pay that for them. i personally wouldnt pay 2 cents for one

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[BonafideHerps]

Do you have pics of what these look like?

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[Rex322]

you can find more at this fabulous website

New England Reptile Distributors, designer Ball Pythons, Reticulated Pythons, and much more!

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[brownsfan222]

they look cool but i dont like hybrids, i dont mind naturally occuring hybrids (mostly crosses actually) there not fertile though are they?

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[Rex322]

bateaters? they are, how else you think jungle burms and jungle tics came along?

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[brownsfan222]

Originally Posted by Rex322

you can find more at this fabulous website

New England Reptile Distributors, designer Ball Pythons, Reticulated Pythons, and much more!

i was wondering why nerd has such a bad name?

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[brownsfan222]

well i read the nerd website and it said that they arent fertile when two bateaters are bred together which is probably a good thing.

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[Rex322]

maybe not that no, im not sure about.

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[richardduckworth]

without these ridiculous hybrids,there would simply be less interest in the hobby and without the interest (as shallow as it is for some people) there would be fewer numbers and in the very near future, the reptile world is going to need the numbers to fight for its life. it's still something only "weirdos" do (keep snakes).

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[morti]

Originally Posted by SnakeCollector

I never see any for sale, are they really that hard to breed...or sale?
Except for the one at the local pet store hes prob between 8 and 10 ft and has been there ever since ive been going there which is about a year probably, they are selling it for i think about $2000.

Yes, they are that hard to breed, and there are not that many people working with them. Really cool snakes though.

Originally Posted by BWSmith

They are not real snakes. They are useless hybrid crap with one of the dumbest names I have ever heard.

Wow BW, Tell us how you really feel. They got the name Borneo Bat Eater because of some lack of ethics back in the early 80's when they were first produced. They were marketed as a whole new species. I think it was more of a practical joke than anything.

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[amercnwmn]

Not that I would buy one, but I can't help but like their markings.

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[mrcota]

This is among the worst examples of hybrids that there is. They are SO distantly related that you will not even find the two 'parent' species in the same clade (group of similar animals). If you don't believe me, please look at a phylogeny of these snakes. If you can not find one, I will be happy to provide you one of the many references where you can find one. Although it is a crossing of different species, there are genera that are more closely related than those two. I actually saw some website claiming that they are natural, but if you search the wet collections worldwide, including the BMNH, which covers hundreds of years worth of specimens from around the world- you will not find one. Why is it that no one in this country have ever come across one, especially in areas like where I live, where they live in sympatry? It is simple; it just does not happen.
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How many die in the egg or as neonates, because their genetics are so in disarray, just to produce one of these abhorrent freaks? Think of the suffering of the ones that die because their organs don't function properly because of this abhorrent genetical mess that someone wanted to create for their own ammusement and don't forget PROFIT. Does anyone except me see animal cruelty involved in this suffering of these genetical freaks that do not survive to make it to the market because of someone that wants to make some money?
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This kind of immoral behaviour along with all the reptiles that die from improper care is what is truly sickening about the pet trade. There is no one that can claim to like or love animals that could possibly condone this kind of behaviour- it is all about them and the money, not about liking or caring for animals. One last thing, please don't even try to compare this to some kind of scientific experiment or discovery; there is ABSOLUTELY NO scientific value in the ceation of these freaks, only commercial value and some very selfish gratification.
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This post is not about closely related species, like those that are just over the criteria for speciation. Although I personally do not like that or all these 'morphs' either, they are not subjected to the suffering I described above to make a buck. So many thousands of species available in the US pet trade; I just do not understand the need to create freaks.
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Cheers,
Michael

[bahreptiles]

Hybrid so be it. Bad looking...you bet

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[LukaTisus]

Wow.. this is the second wierd hybrid I've come across in the past few days. I found a picture of an apparent Jungle Carpet python cross with a ball python last night and THAT was an odd combonation if I ever saw one!

I mean look at this thing..! It's neat looking, but I wouldn't support the breeding of it at all... because what is it? Semi-Arboreal..? Completely terrestrial? There's no way of knowing what kind of Husbandry it would need, closer to a ball python, or more space so it can climb around like a jungle carpet?

It's just things like this that I don't condone.

Here's another picture of it.

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[razeraze]

Hey Michael what about tiger retics? Rumor is they are natural also, ever see one in the wild? What about the recent discovery of the grizzly polar bear hybrid shot in the wild? To say a cross like this never happens in the wild is a pretty bold statement.

However I know nothing about reptile breeding or genetics so maybe some one can explain to me why the polargrizzly can exist but not the burmetic.

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[mrcota]

Originally Posted by razeraze

Hey Michael what about tiger retics? Rumor is they are natural also, ever see one in the wild? What about the recent discovery of the grizzly polar bear hybrid shot in the wild? To say a cross like this never happens in the wild is a pretty bold statement.
However I know nothing about reptile breeding or genetics so maybe some one can explain to me why the polargrizzly can exist but not the burmetic.

Tom,
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Ursus arctos (Brown Bears & Grizzly Bears) and Ursus maritimus (Polar Bears) are more closely related than any two species of that genus and are shown to have broken off from the same recent ancestor (not talking about distant ancestor). A monitor example: think of Varanus bengalensis bengalensis and Varanus bengalensis nebulosus, which some consider a separate species (Varanus nebulosus). Think of the high probability of producing a hybrid with both coming from the same recent basal species and this was sensational news.
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On the other hand, Python reticulatus is a distinct separate species of the Austral-Asian Clade of snakes, coming from the same quite distant basal species as the Australian pythons. Someone could quite easily make the case with plenty of molecular evidence for Python reticulatus to be a monotypic genus. Python molurus is a member of the African-Asian Clade of pythons and its closest related species is actually Python regius (yes the Ball Python: now that I have said that, some idiot is going to try that ). A monitor example the difference between Python reticulatus and Python molurus, would be be like comparing Varanus salvadorii (a monotypic species of its own subgenus) with Varanus nolticus. (Yes, they are that different genetically).
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I am quite close to the reptile curator of the national zoo here and have had the opportunity to see a number of morphs that were brought in for them to care for, but no 'tiger retic'. All the albino Python molurus bivittatus that you see in the US can be traced to albinos that were stolen from the national zoo in Bangkok, bred and their progeny smuggled out of the country. As a result of people breaking into the zoo back then, rare naturally occuring morphs are no longer displayed. The 'yellow headed retics' are a natural variation where I live (my neighbourhood).
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Those 'striped' variants that you often see are not usually any kind of genetical variation; they are usually produced by keeping the incubation temperature artificially low to the point of being nearly fatal (their idea: who cares how many die? We will get more money for them). From appearances, that is what the 'tiger retics' look like to me.
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Hope that answered your questions,
Michael

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	Morph A morph is a color or pattern variation that is proven to be genetic. Common morphs include albino, anerythristic, gentically striped, Hypomelanistic, and many others. Morphs also include combinations of simple traits such as "Sunglow" which is Albino and Hypomelanistic. These traits may be recessive traits, co-dominant traits, dominant traits, or created through selective breeding (ie Pastel).

[razeraze]

Thank you so much, Michael. When I looked up tiger retics, information suggested one was found in the wild and they have bred them since in captivity. I am not big on "designer" reptiles and did not realize the tigers were part of that. I honestly thought it was just a rare design like sulfur water monitors or the all black water monitor (who's name escapes me). Well thanks for the heads up. I will not get rid of her but I will be sure not to get another tiger and to tell people they are not found naturally.

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