unexpected clutch

richardduckworth · #1 (**permalink**) 07-07-2007, 11:13 PM

a friend's wife is taking care of his animals and today one started laying eggs. i can only go there to help on the days i don't have my kids so she basically has to be able to deal with them. now, the snake is "at least 6', definitely a python and brown and black" so i'm thinking it's a rescued burmese and went on that. i can't check it out until monday evening.

my advice was to keep the cage temperature in the low to mid 80's, keep the humidity over 70% (moss nice and damp) and to section off one end of the cage and put a few inches of sphagnum moss in and to place the eggs there in their exact position when they start to dry/harden/whiten a bit. an artificial incubator is out of the question and their best bet is to let mama snake care for them, because they described her mannerisms and it sounded like she was doing well as far as instinct is concerned

sound information? tried to keep it simple. i have no real experience with python eggs and there are no locals to help her out.

Kaa_BCC · #2 (**permalink**) 07-07-2007, 11:47 PM

What should've happened is that a nestbox should've already been provided. Since that is not the case here is prbably your next best bet. Pack about 3" of damp **NOT WET** sphagnum moss around the eggs. It should only be wet enough that it is not dusty.Typically the mother would've made a good bowl shaped depression out of this but we will work with what we have. Do let mom do the hatching. It tends to be better anyway in pythons. Don't move the eggs especially if she is inexperienced in handling eggs or pythons with a maternal instinct complex. DO keep the humidity level high and the ambient temp in the cage around 80 - 85 and let mom do the fine adjustment. Most pythons do a rather good job of adjusting the incubation process themselves by raising and lowering their own body temp.If she is still in her care when the eggs hatch make sure that you remove the hatchlings as they hatch or they could be crushed by the female. You can look on Bob Clarks website for his article on hatching python eggs or find it inthe Mar. 06 of REPTILES magazine as well. Another good reference is the book "The Captive Reproductive Husbandry of Pythons and Boa's" Which is out of print and can be difficult to find. i hope this info helps you some. Let me know hoiw it turns out.

richardduckworth · #3 (**permalink**) 07-07-2007, 11:52 PM

i didn't even know they had any pythons, but she said one of the big boas laid eggs and i told her that wasn't possible, then she described it and he was always taking in rescues, so i assumed she had one of his rescued burms (4 in the past 6 months).

there really is no telling what they are until i see them though. she's going to do her best and i'll help when i can so maybe things will turn out well. thanks for the help. she's competent and very caring when it comes to animals.

Kaa_BCC · #4 (**permalink**) 07-08-2007, 12:16 AM

I just hope my advice helps some.

richardduckworth · #5 (**permalink**) 07-08-2007, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaa_BCC

I just hope my advice helps some.

i have no egg experience and only know what i'm told, and what you told me sounds like what others have said over the years, so it definitely can't hurt. thanks

Chubbz · #6 (**permalink**) 07-08-2007, 02:11 AM

doesnt sound like a burm at only 6 feet...maybe a ball...ask her how many eggs she can see

richardduckworth · #7 (**permalink**) 07-08-2007, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubbz

doesnt sound like a burm at only 6 feet...maybe a ball...ask her how many eggs she can see

well, it's what i was kinda thinkingit may be; slugs from one of the boas.....i knew he had 3 adult female boas that SHOULD be gravid, but i haven't been over in a while.....his son SHOULD know a lot more about snakes than he does, but he's obviously no better off than her.......but she had 37 slugs and there was no burmese.......the last i heard, he had no pythons except for a few small ball pythons that couldn't be gravid.....probably for the best

Kaa_BCC · #8 (**permalink**) 07-08-2007, 05:30 AM

6' ball is very unlikely. But so is a 6' burm laying eggs. Hmmmmmmmm Boa slugs sounds valid but this is a little late in the season. Maybe her sizes are off. Keep us posted I really want to know what is really happening now lol. I am guessing you know that she slugged out at least right?

sweety314 · #9 (**permalink**) 07-08-2007, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaa_BCC

What should've happened is that a nestbox should've already been provided. Since that is not the case here is prbably your next best bet. Pack about 3" of damp **NOT WET** sphagnum moss around the eggs. It should only be wet enough that it is not dusty.Typically the mother would've made a good bowl shaped depression out of this but we will work with what we have. Do let mom do the hatching. It tends to be better anyway in pythons. Don't move the eggs especially if she is inexperienced in handling eggs or pythons with a maternal instinct complex. DO keep the humidity level high and the ambient temp in the cage around 80 - 85 and let mom do the fine adjustment. Most pythons do a rather good job of adjusting the incubation process themselves by raising and lowering their own body temp.If she is still in her care when the eggs hatch make sure that you remove the hatchlings as they hatch or they could be crushed by the female. You can look on Bob Clarks website for his article on hatching python eggs or find it inthe Mar. 06 of REPTILES magazine as well. Another good reference is the book "The Captive Reproductive Husbandry of Pythons and Boa's" Which is out of print and can be difficult to find. i hope this info helps you some. Let me know hoiw it turns out.

Since they're cold blooded, how do you expect the female to RAISE the incubation temp??? The shivering muscles things hasn't been conclusively proven for pythons. Even tho I was a biology major, I'm still learning, and was just curious.

thanks!

richardduckworth · #10 (**permalink**) 07-08-2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweety314

Since they're cold blooded, how do you expect the female to RAISE the incubation temp??? The shivering muscles things hasn't been conclusively proven for pythons. Even tho I was a biology major, I'm still learning, and was just curious.
thanks!

mammals shiver because those muscle spasms create heat....that's exactly what snakes do......i didn't know they were still studying it and "not conclusively" in the scientific world means someone is still a detractor, possibly someone important, but not that someone hasn't proven it to the majority yet....if that's the case, it could be a technicality

the fact that she's cold blooded doesn't matter.....go rub an eraser on a piece of paper vigorously for 30 seconds and it will be hot too.....neither of those objects are anything-blooded.....friction creates heat

if the ambient air temp is near 85, then her shivering will up the heat enough to hit the desired temp....a few degrees is about all she's capable of but that's all they need

richardduckworth · #11 (**permalink**) 07-08-2007, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaa_BCC

6' ball is very unlikely. But so is a 6' burm laying eggs. Hmmmmmmmm Boa slugs sounds valid but this is a little late in the season. Maybe her sizes are off. Keep us posted I really want to know what is really happening now lol. I am guessing you know that she slugged out at least right?

i only know what they're telling me and she kind of irked me last night, so i'm not sure i'll even keep up with her anymore......i was friends with her husband and nice to everyone else.....i'm pretty sure it was a boa though because i'm pretty sure he had no pythons and the only 6' snakes he had was a male timber rattler and three female pythons.....

doubt they were baby rattlers.

Kaa_BCC · #12 (**permalink**) 07-08-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweety314

Since they're cold blooded, how do you expect the female to RAISE the incubation temp??? The shivering muscles things hasn't been conclusively proven for pythons. Even tho I was a biology major, I'm still learning, and was just curious.
thanks!

This is known of Reticulated pythons and assumed to be true at least to an extent of other large python species. If given some control (i.e. set ambient temp to 80-85 and humidity at 80%) a female snake is perfectly suited to incubate her own eggs. A female will bask to raise her own body temp to ideal incubating temperature's. She will coil around her eggs and tighten or loosen her coils to conserve or release excess heat and humidity. Reticulated Pythons DO have the ability to raise their own body temps. I am not sure if it is through the muscle vibration that you mentioned. Although that is what I believe. Smaller species though (i.e. Spotted's and balls) Do not have the ability to generate their own heat during incubation. They will leave the nest site more often to bask and bring their own body heat closer to that of proper incubation temps. The same is generally true of boa's. A gravid female will have on average a higher body temp than that of you male or non-gravid female. Why? because they are incubating their young. Live bearers or not. Although their are many things that we do not yet know about these wonderful creatures that fascinate us. We are learning and discovering more every day. Alot of this working is being done by us. The herpetoculturists as well. Not the scientists or the vets. I mean it was US not any other group of formally educated that discovered probe sexing. The most common and reliable method used today.

amercnwmn · #13 (**permalink**) 07-10-2007, 04:21 PM

I wouldn't think that is a Ball at 6ft, as mentioned, perhaps her size is off? It isn't unheard of, but not very common to have a Ball at 6ft length.
Unless, as suggested her Boa is dropping slugs. Surely she'd know the difference though?

It could be a Blood Python as well. If they don't know the difference between a Boa and Python why are they doing rescues?
Sorry, not trying to pick on your friends, that just struck me as odd.

Seems like quite a few people have been mixing up Ball Pythons with other snakes, wonder where they are all getting this information?

Anyways, hopefully you can get over there and figure out what they have so you can help them, I probably wouldn't expect a good showing from the clutch, however.

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