Redtailboa.net  

Welcome to the Redtailboa.net forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, free photo gallery (10 meg upload limit), free classifieds, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   Redtailboa.net > SNAKES > Giant Pythons (Burms, and Rocks and retics..OH my)
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Arcade Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Advertisement
Support Redtailboa.net, DONATE!  
 

» Site Navigation
» Home
 > Chat!
» Recent Threads
Newbieee
Last post by crucified
Today 03:38 AM
4 Replies, 5 Views
Random Baby Gecko...
Last post by Aly
Today 03:37 AM
11 Replies, 245 Views
IJ and IJ/Jag norm sib...
Last post by crucified
Today 03:34 AM
11 Replies, 188 Views
Post shed Spider, Albino...
Last post by crucified
Today 03:32 AM
6 Replies, 124 Views
tempormental boa pics
Last post by crucified
Today 03:30 AM
4 Replies, 38 Views
Rosy boa or corn snake?
Last post by kellymack515
Today 03:28 AM
28 Replies, 382 Views
tila tequila with a RTB
Last post by spike06
Today 03:21 AM
1 Replies, 2 Views
» Ads

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2004, 06:32 PM
NicoleRussell's Avatar
NicoleRussell NicoleRussell is offline
Where's the bag of trix?
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 8,837
Thanks: 222
Thanked 117 Times in 92 Posts
Points: 19,669.93
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 19,669.93
Donate
Rep Power: 578
NicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to NicoleRussell





Burm's caging

I was wondering about burm's and the size of most cages. In the local zoo the cage is big but doesn't seem big enough for a snake that size. I would think for an adult you need a room no? I know with the tegus (not to compare -- I know burms are huge) I let them out each day to cut down on cage space.
Is that what you burm owners have to do?
Also if some boas are eating rabbits what do the adult burms eat? And how often?
Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2004, 06:45 PM
BurmeseMike BurmeseMike is offline
Regular RTB User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 122
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Points: 1,099.06
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 1,099.06
Donate
Rep Power: 15
BurmeseMike is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to BurmeseMike
well i myself have 3 burms. one 14' female a 10' albino male and a 34" albino female. the 14' and the 10' have a 9' x 11' room which they share. then my little 34" has a 175 gallon aqa.
Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2004, 06:47 PM
SnakeBabe's Avatar
SnakeBabe SnakeBabe is offline
Regular RTB User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 196
Thanks: 3
Thanked 24 Times in 15 Posts
Points: 4,818.98
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 4,818.98
Donate
Rep Power: 20
SnakeBabe is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to SnakeBabe
Can’t let them out each day, too heavy to carry. You would need help constantly. I cannot imagine getting three or four friends to daily assist in sunning your pet. If you can good luck but I prefer the biggest cage you can get. Currently, my 14-foot Burm has a 15-foot cage, 15 long, 5 deep and 4 high. Space to move. I think this is very important for them to develop good muscle tone. I often hear from Burm owners that there big snakes just sit and don’t move much due to their weight. My experience is just the opposite. If you give them the room when the lights go out they cruise all night long. Up and down off the shelves and over tree limbs. Whether looking for escape, food or girls snakes they do move and lifting that much weight (90 plus pounds) the get strong and healthy.
Just my views.

I do have a question for you; I am looking to build a room for my Asian Water monitor “Bambi”
So far, plans have me using an 8 foot round pool, any idea how to clean or filter the water?
I can’t imagine the zoos drain pools daily as I do with her 50-gallon pond she is currently using.

Thanks
Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria
Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2004, 06:49 PM
NicoleRussell's Avatar
NicoleRussell NicoleRussell is offline
Where's the bag of trix?
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 8,837
Thanks: 222
Thanked 117 Times in 92 Posts
Points: 19,669.93
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 19,669.93
Donate
Rep Power: 578
NicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to NicoleRussell





what do they eat? And how often.
I figured a room would be in order---caging would probably be cruel. At the zoo the burm has a heat mat that can only fit like 1/3 of it's body and a cage that just seems way too small..
Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2004, 07:02 PM
SnakeBabe's Avatar
SnakeBabe SnakeBabe is offline
Regular RTB User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 196
Thanks: 3
Thanked 24 Times in 15 Posts
Points: 4,818.98
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 4,818.98
Donate
Rep Power: 20
SnakeBabe is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to SnakeBabe
My burms are feed according to their size. My 14 footer gets fed every 10th and 14th day. A pre-killed, frozen/thawed rat or rabbit weighing in at approx 1-2 pounds. I give them 4 days in between for easier digestion. She could easily handle a 4-pound rabbit. I just don’t like them to be bloated. A lean healthy snake is a happy snake.

For heat I use Radiant heat panels, which creates an ambient heat, and the entire cage is warm. They can move directly under the panel at 90 degrees or over to the cool side at about 78 degrees.


Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria
Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2004, 07:08 PM
NicoleRussell's Avatar
NicoleRussell NicoleRussell is offline
Where's the bag of trix?
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 8,837
Thanks: 222
Thanked 117 Times in 92 Posts
Points: 19,669.93
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 19,669.93
Donate
Rep Power: 578
NicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleRussell has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to NicoleRussell





Maria:

When I move I want to install an indoor pond in the herp room.
I would buy a shell at a local store and make it VERY large (like close to 300 gallons). I would get a pond filter for this setup. I would also have to do alot of trial and error and basically approach it the way I approached the WD pool. It took a few months to get it to where I was happy with water quality and clarity.
For this I bought a testing kit...and tested for nitrates and ammonia (I found when these two were off the PH was always off). Being it's fecal matter from such a large lizard you would have to at *least* double filter the water...which means take whatever is says on the filter box and double the power per gallon. You would have to introduce beneficial bacteria to help with fecal break down. It would have to be an external filter with alot of nitrate stuff and ammonia pellets....which you would have to check for clogs regularly.
Water changing became a whole lot easier because of the PYTHON system I bought. It uses any sink to pump water in and take old water out...no electricity at all...all water pressure. When quality is bad I do a partial or complete change with little effort while I'm changing the cages. There are people who claim to have installed a natural filter which never needs a water change...I would have to see the dipstick to believe it though
I feel you just can't get away with water changes. Even the people at the local zoo got fed up and took out the pond from the croc monitor cage...but their were alot of lizards using one pond. It would have to be changed a few time a day with all that feces. If you planned it well you could install a drain to help....JG Worlds has one that hooks up to your tolite.
With one monitor it should be doable---just plan on using something better then a kiddie pool--he will shred it like paper with those claws.
Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2004, 12:39 AM
Dbutton's Avatar
Dbutton Dbutton is offline
I am an RTB Addict !
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,325
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Points: 11,232.67
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 11,232.67
Donate
Rep Power: 147
Dbutton is a splendid one to beholdDbutton is a splendid one to beholdDbutton is a splendid one to beholdDbutton is a splendid one to beholdDbutton is a splendid one to beholdDbutton is a splendid one to beholdDbutton is a splendid one to behold
Snakebabe,
A 14 footer and all you feed her is a 1-2 lb. rat or rabbit every couple fo weeks? That is on the verge of starving her. My 13ft. 95lb. male eats at least an 8 lb rabbit every 10 to 14 days except when he is in shed and is not even close to being fat. And my 12-13 ft. female eats a 6-8 pounder ever 14 days and is just growing like a weed. That is not power feeding either, it is just what they need in caloric intake. A lean burmese is a constantly hungry burmese and I am not suprised that she cruises thta cage every night looking for something to eat. Imagine if all you got to eat was one hard boiled egg every day and that was it. That is about how you are feeding your snake. You need to read up on the proper calorie intake for burms.
I would like to see some pictures of your 15 foot enclosure though. Sounds interesting. Do you have any pictures of your snake too?

David
Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2004, 03:09 AM
SnakeBabe's Avatar
SnakeBabe SnakeBabe is offline
Regular RTB User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 196
Thanks: 3
Thanked 24 Times in 15 Posts
Points: 4,818.98
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 4,818.98
Donate
Rep Power: 20
SnakeBabe is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to SnakeBabe
Thanks for you concern but I think you misread my post. I said one on the 10th AND one on the 14th day. That equals about 3-4 pounds of food intake each 14 days. Again this is just approximates, I was just casually chatting. Sometimes they could weigh more. I looked at my freezer and noticed my current stock of rabbits is 2.5 pounds. So last feeding I gave him 5 pounds. You get the idea. But that is still half the food you suggest.

You said I need to read up on the proper calorie intake for burms. What is the recommended caloric intake and how many calories does a rat or rabbit have? I would be interested in that. I know my burms would eat everyday till they puke if I let them but my burms are huge and do not look thin at all, ask anyone who has seen pics or them or TV with us. So now I am concerned. Are we missing something?

Still, an 8-pound rabbit in a 13 foot Burm, I understand why yours do not cruise the cage, they are stuffed! Lol.


I will try to get some pics of the cages.
Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria
Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2004, 04:43 AM
Dbutton's Avatar
Dbutton Dbutton is offline
I am an RTB Addict !
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,325
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Points: 11,232.67
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 11,232.67
Donate
Rep Power: 147
Dbutton is a splendid one to beholdDbutton is a splendid one to beholdDbutton is a splendid one to beholdDbutton is a splendid one to beholdDbutton is a splendid one to beholdDbutton is a splendid one to beholdDbutton is a splendid one to behold
This post from Albinoburmese.com explains it pretty well and will save me alot of typing.
This post is by Craig,

I did not recommend feeding 20% BW. I recommend people feed growing Burmese pythons 10% of their body weight every 4-14 days (length of time depending on age/size/growthrate). A meal size of 20% would be considered an excess, and that sort of overfeeding will not be helpful to the animal. So, shoot for 10%. Did you happen to get your snake weighed when you saw the vet?

The nutrient breakdown of an adult rat is as follows:

(weight= 330 grams which would be considered large but not colossal)

% water = 66
% kcals from protein = 55
% kcals from fat = 43
% kcals from carbos = 2
mg/kcal calcium = 4.4
mg/kcal phosphorus = 3.2

as fed, the energy supplied to your snake from a rat will be aprox. 1.6kcal/gram.

therefore, a 330 gram rat contains about 528 kcals.

a 15,000 gram snake (about 33 pounds) that's still growing will need anywhere between 257 and 642 kcals/day*, or if you're feeding once a week, 1,799 to 4,494 kcal/week or about 3.5 to 9 adult 330g rats/week. (I've calculated this for 30C or 86F). The variations depend on many factors concerning snake growth and metabolism. For your snake that has been used to being underfed, I'd start with the standard metabolic rate (SMR), which is the lower number, and gradually increase to 1.5 SMR. For this to work well, we need acurate weight of the animals.

A rabbit (common domestic - Oryctolagus cuniculus) supplies much more water and a little less energy density. I calculated an as fed basis for a whole rabbit carcass (the following doc only lists dry matter basis) and found your average domestic rabbit is 0.76 kcals/gram. It therefore takes about half as many grams of rodents as it does rabbits to supply equal calories. However, it's easy to feed one 13 pound rabbit and more difficult to feed 9 rats (about 6.5 pounds) rats! For our mystical 33lb. snake, it would take anywhere between 5.3lb to 13 pounds of rabbits per week.

Here's the bottomline lowdown dirty summary:

For 1000 kilocalories, it takes a 625 gram (~1.375lb) of rat or a 1315 gram (~2.9lb.) rabbit. It's very difficult to find a 625g rat, but easy to find a 3lb. rabbit. There's also evidence that suggests GI health is stimulated by lesser biological foodstuffs like rabbits as opposed to rats.

I got much of this information from a USDA article which I'm now posting here and on my website. Click here to view the PDF about whole prey nutrient composition.

* This is from a reference in this book: Mader DR: Reptile Medicine and Surgery. W.B. Saunders Company, Philidelphia, 1996. p 150

Here is the link to the PDF refered to in the post. It is very informative.

http://www.albinoburmese.com/article...nal02May29.pdf

As you can see here I am not over feeding my burm. He weighs approx. 95lbs at 13ft. and will be 12 years old on the 4th of July. he is a very mature male and he does cruise the cage within about 8 days of having eaten a 8-10lb rabbit. I don't just feed him when ever he looks hungry, I have him on a strict schedule that is only interupted by his sheds, after which I usually give him a nice big rabbit since he is ravenous right after he sheds. I don't want a fat snake. Burms are heavy bodied by nature though. Unlike retics which have a leaner body. I hope this explains it all to you.


David
Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2004, 06:59 AM
herp_chick herp_chick is offline
I am an RTB Addict !