Series of questions from a new Leo co-owner

storm · #1 (**permalink**) 09-02-2002, 12:14 AM

Hello, all! My fiancé (who may end up posting here as ShyViolet, hard to know right now) is getting a leopard gecko from our Sick Uncle Morti. ShyVi's mom would probably have a heart attack if any kind of herp entered the house, so for now, the Leo will be living with me. That said, i have a few big questions:

Firstly, crickets being the noisy leaping nuisance that they are, i am considering feeding the leo mealworms, with (per the care sheet here) a supplimental pinkie (mouse, not my finger) once a month. Is this a good way to go? Also, do i need to dust the mealworms?

Second, substrate, aka "controversial gecko post of the year" - I am trying to decide between paper towels or this calci-sand i keep hearing about. What are the pros and cons of each?

Third, heating question: heating pad, lamp, or both? What is the proper heat range? Should there be a temp drop at night? Also, what is a good day/night cycle time to keep her on?

Lastly, is this kid likely to get lonely? Right now, there are no immediate plans for adding a second leo to this collection. Is she going to be all right alone? I plan on handling her regularly, which raises another question: how much attention is too much?

Right, i think that's about that, for now. Thanks in advance for all your help!
~Storm

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Only a brave or foolhardy man enters a staring contest with a serpent, for they have no eyelids and do not take well to losing.

StaticKaos · #2 (**permalink**) 09-02-2002, 12:56 AM

I can help on a few... For a substrate, i would say newspaper is a good decision juss like for any kinda herp but its not good looking and animals can't burrow.. my leo will dig around an move the calci sand as he pleases for where he wants to lay an such..plus the calci sand is actually nutritous when eaten on accident so i went for that.. has many colors too.. 1 thing to beware of that is that if u plan to dust the food also, try to get something without D3..D3 is also in the calci sand and you don't want to much of it because it will be harmful..

I use a heating pad and a heat lamp.. The pad does no good I don't believe because the gecko never lays immediatly over it or anything.. He does not avoid it, juss doesn't fancy it for no reason either.. I do believe UV light benefits geckos though so it is a good decision to use light..

feeding the mealworms is also cheaper and easier.. although i think a full diet of mealworms will give u a fat leo more than a healthy 1.. obese animals, humans as well, will have shorter life spans.. i have feed meal worms all this week due to a shortage of crickets but i will go back to doing a switch up everyday between the two..
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motorherp · #3 (**permalink**) 09-02-2002, 01:02 AM

Hi, ok I've got fat tails but they are roughly the same thing:-

1. I hate crickets but my geckos just won't eat mealworms so I've got to put up with their wretched bouncing (and escaping)! Also I wouldn't be completely happy with a full diet of mealworm with the hard to digest problems but that is purely personal. Also only one of my geckos will eat pinkies (I've tried everything). So I'd go with crickets and very small locust which are expensive over here but the geckos love 'em.

2. I used to use calci sand but have moved to paper towels as I find them quicker and less smelly in the long run. Plus the cost of calci sand Agh! Both are equally ok though, personal taste again.

3. I've got a heat lamp and a heat mat, the lamp is a 25 watt blue bulb and is on for 12 hours a day, the mat comes on at night and is on a mat stat just to make sure it doesn't get too cold in the winter. The bulb going off provides a drop in temp at night. Their temps go from 82 to 92 degrees during the day and down to about 75 in the cool end at night.

4. Hmm, I had one on its own for a while and only got her a friend when I happed just to find one in a shop. My lone one didn't seem lonely before but they do look cute cuddled up together in their wet box at night. The handling should be kept to a minimum for a few days just to let the gecko settle in but then it can be increased, just as long as the gecko isn't stressed or cold, mine are out exploring for anything between 5 minutes and an hour.

Think that's all! Good luck [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
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MacGyver · #4 (**permalink**) 09-02-2002, 04:12 AM

We don't own geckos, so take this for what its worth (just what we've read in preparation for getting geckos in the near future).

You should feed a bit of a variety, so feeding strictly mealworms isn't the best idea. I think it has something to do with the chitenous material of their shells not being very easily digested, especially by young animals. But, I'm pretty sure you can get freeze dried crickets if you don't want to deal with the noise and jumping. I've also seen bowls which cause the dried crickets to vibrate around, simulating live bug movement to encourage the feeding instinct.

I'm sure if you do a little searching in this forum you'll find a lot more detailed info about feeding/dusting with vitamins and housing info.

good luck!
Will & Heather
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Shadrach · #5 (**permalink**) 09-02-2002, 04:41 AM

OK let's answer a few of your question's.

First let's go with the diet go with mainly cricket's since they digets eaiser than meal worm's as far as them being noisy only adult cricket's are noisy so try to get them right before adulthood. And yes dust the cricket's at least once every other feeding.

Second substrate you can go with newspaper or calci-sand personally I like the calci-sand and have had no ill effect's using it for our little friend's plus it adds color and when eaten calcium to the diet.

Third as far as heat go with an under the tank heat pad and temps should range from 75 to 85 day and about a 10 degree drop at night promote a good immune system. A day basking bulb is not needed since these guy's like to sleep during the day and don't usally bask so don't waste you money on UV bulb's they do fine with out them. Also go with a 12 hour cycle for day and night if possiable.

and Fourth handle her as often as you can to get her to calm down soon she will be trusting of you and will sit on your shoulder and not try to scram as fast when tame.
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storm · #6 (**permalink**) 09-02-2002, 05:47 AM

Thanks, guys and/or gals - Having your info combined with the care sheets i've printed off and some basic experience with her at Morti's place, i think i'm pretty well set to bring that little darling home. (Lucky me, she comes with her 10-gal tank!) [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

_________________
Only a brave or foolhardy man enters a staring contest with a serpent, for they have no eyelids and do not take well to losing.
1.0 Redtail Boa (BCI), 0.1 Leopard Gecko

MajorLunitik · #7 (**permalink**) 10-07-2002, 04:36 PM

May be a bit late, but I have a comment on getting your gecko a pal. I am currently researching leos before I purchase and unless you want to breed, stick with one. Although it seems sad alone, one male and one female is a worse combo. Sometimes the female will get oversexed and it could cause malnutrition due to stress (ya I mean they hump too much) . It is better to have one male and two females so one female does not get overstressed. And whatever you do, don't put two males in the same enclosure. Major Leo fights. A hierarchy needs to be established and these little boogers will fight over it.
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#8 (**permalink**) 10-07-2002, 04:51 PM

Might be redundant but I'll toss in my two cents as well. I feed mealworms nearly always. A couple times I give em crix or supers if they lose interest in mealies but crix can be harder for them to catch. You do also need to dust the mealworms. Alternate with plain calcium and calcium with D3. I like to spread around the powder on the paper towel or a rock or something if they ge tthe urge to naturally lick it off. Pinkies aren't necessary, I wouldn't bother. On the digestibility of mealworms, younger mealworms are easier to digest and if you have a UTH you should have no digestion problems.

I say paper towel: Leos don't actually process the calcium in calci-sand that well if at all. Even adults can get impacted or at least have problems pooping. You can't feed directly on sand because they will ingest too much. Therefore it becomes difficult to fee if the Leo like hunting in their own territory. paper towel is cheaper, easier to clean etc etc.

Both UTH and lamp is necessary. Get a gradient of 80-88 during the day and 75-80 at night. (Different care sheets will tell you different ranges so this is an approximate) No need for UV light as Leos are nocturnal and will get their D3 from the calcium powder.

Regular handling, 20 minutes a day is fine. Leos are very hardy and will tolerate it but they don't necessarily enjoy it like some other herps might. She'll be fine alone. If you want to add another female make sure the tank is at least a 20 long. I think I heard somewhere that Leos kept singly live longer. Not sure if that has to do with feeding or mating or what but it's something to think about.

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photo.redtailboa.net/Murtle

#9 (**permalink**) 10-07-2002, 04:56 PM

And join up on Gecko Island if you haven't already. It's a lot of the same people but you may get a larger response since it's more gecko specific.
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eddie · #10 (**permalink**) 10-07-2002, 05:08 PM

I would avoid the pinkies and stick with mealies, wax worms on occasion and crickets bought in small quantities so they are gone quickly.

Pinkies sometimes won't be eaten by leos unless they are live and this can lead to worm issues which can decimate a leo quickly. Regurges, runny poop etc on such a small animal leads to a major problem quickly!
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BWSmith · #11 (**permalink**) 10-07-2002, 05:23 PM

On the note of feeding. I have found that crickets are the best option. To very the diet a little, I used superworms (NOT Mealworms) and Waxworms. Mealworms have a very hard exoskeleton which is hard to digest. While superworms have and exoskeleton, it is not nearly as rigid and there is also less mass of exoskeleton for the body mass of the feeder. If one gets thin, I use waxworms. They are VERY high in fat. May be helpful sometimes, but should not be a staple. I dust with ReptiCal, Herpvite, and MinerAll. Only use one of the dusts at a time. I generally rotated between the three and a feeding with no dust. For substrate, I always use Playsand. Never had a problem with it. Several reasons for this. Once you put it in, you can use a wide strainer to separate out the big stuff. This also works great for cleaning the cage. All of the feces gets caught in the strainer. Easy Clean. Playsand is also cheap. Anyone who has bred a lot of desert dwellers knows that expensive sand, REALLY gets to be a luxury, not a neccessity. Plus the black sand will turn your animal black! (not sure about the other colors). I keep the sand deep enough that they can dig well. Several Hide spots to choose from. A shallow water dish. Using this, i have produced hundreds of babies. It is also kindof fun to decide what sex your babies will be [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] Added bonus to Leos.
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gecko_paws · #12 (**permalink**) 10-07-2002, 06:21 PM

Why is D3 harmful for leopard geckos? I mean if us humans overintake vitamins we just urinate them out, can't reptiles do the same thing? I use reptocal for a vitamin supplement along with gutloading. Reptocal has D3 in it. Should I be worried?
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eddie · #13 (**permalink**) 10-07-2002, 06:29 PM

Ya gotta remember that reptiles have a slower metabolism than humans.
What we get rid of in a few hours can take quite some time for them to pass.
During this time it can be absorbed into their kidneys and liver and create all kinds of issues in the long run.
Thats why its good for us to take vitamins daily, but reptiles only every other to every few feedings.
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gecko_paws · #14 (**permalink**) 10-08-2002, 12:27 AM

Ok good. I've only been feeding the vitamin supplement every two feedings or I would say once a week and leave calcium in a bowl so that they can lick it whenever they want to. Hopefully I'm doing the right thing. Don't day geckos need more d3 then nocturnals anyway?
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