WAHOO! the waters clearing up!

spike06 · #1 (**permalink**) 03-17-2007, 04:18 PM

im converting my fish tank to an african cichlid tank. i had a couple goldfish before. so i brought the fish to a pet store. so i had my tank completely empty, and i put the cichlid gravel in. i washed it for several minutes first. anyway the gravel made the water so grey i couldnt se anything. i called the petstore just to make sure it was ok and he said it was normal and would clear up in a few days. well anyway, not even 24 hours later, and ican already see most of the stuff in the tank. if my water quality is good im gonna go pickup a few cichlids today. the guy at the petstore said that i could put fish in as long as i had good water quality!

muzixman · #2 (**permalink**) 03-17-2007, 04:47 PM

I wouldn't put any fish in it untill you test the water. I'm sure your tank/water is still going thru the cycling process which is very hard on fish and can lead to death. jmo I would hate to see you loss any fish.

spike06 · #3 (**permalink**) 03-17-2007, 07:14 PM

well, im going to test it. i had to put my 2 plecos in there because i kept them and dont have an extra tank/filter. theyre still alive. all im saying is if the water quality is good, im gonna get a few cichlids.

Adrya · #4 (**permalink**) 03-17-2007, 07:28 PM

If you don't have a test kit for pH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates... I wouldn't guess and assume that your water will be okay and go get some fish... I mean it wouldn't hurt to wait several days before getting the fish you want. I just wouldn't want you to waste money on some fish that died because the cycle didn't finish.

mpgt · #5 (**permalink**) 03-17-2007, 08:05 PM

Did anyone at the pet store suggest that you "cycle" the tank before adding fish? If they are suggesting the absence of nitrates or ammonia in a newly established tank, makes it OK to add fish, look around for another store. They'll gladly sell you the fish. Then when the tank gets cloudy and full of ammonia and nitrites from cycling, they'll sell you chemicals you don't need, which don't work. Then when your fish start gasping for air, itching on the rocks, and floating belly up, they get to sell you more fish. You and the fish lose, but they don't care.

African cichlids are hardy and really easy to keep under the right conditions. I hope it works out for you. It sounds bad so far though. Good luck anyway. Can I ask how big the tank is, how it's filtered, and what species you're looking at?

Here's an awesome website for info.
Aquarium Setup

walls · #6 (**permalink**) 03-17-2007, 10:35 PM

I agree 100% with the above post. The cycle was already started when you added the plecs. They will (hopefully) be able to adjust to the ammonia and nitrite spikes while the cycle goes on.

As of right now your tank has no where near enough BENEFICIAL bacteria to sustain the bioload from even a couple small fish.

IMHO you will do yourself good to just be patient and wait 3 or 4 weeks till the tank "matures" BEFORE adding any more fish. Otherwise im afraid you are in for heartaches.

spike06 · #7 (**permalink**) 03-17-2007, 11:00 PM

the people at the pet store near me do whats best for the animals, not what sells. if they thought that it was bad for the fish, they would reccomend to me to not buy fish for a bit. again, my 2 plecs are doing great. theyre active. i bought 2 small cichlids and am planning on getting 3 more within the next few days. its a 10 gal tank. the only reason im putting 5 is because cichlids tend to be less aggressive when kept in larger groups. i have a regular filter and an airstone in the tank. and im getting african cichlids

luker3232 · #8 (**permalink**) 03-17-2007, 11:03 PM

im not trying to argue but that might be way to many in a 10 gal.

spike06 · #9 (**permalink**) 03-17-2007, 11:12 PM

like i said, the only reason im putting 5 is because ciclids tend to be less aggressive when their in a group. i wasnt trying to start a fight when i made this post. i was just making a statement and it turned into this. im not a newbie at fish keeping. ive been keeping fish for about 4-5 yrs now.

walls · #10 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 12:53 AM

Im not fighting with you at all, I am trying to help. You want to put SEVEN fish in a TEN GALLON tank WITHOUT letting it cycle, active aggressive feeding fish..........go ahead. But I can pretty much guarentee that you ARE heading for disaster.

It doesnt matter if you have 10 airstones and ten filters and the water is clearer than a diamond, the fact still remains that the tank is BIOLOGICALLY NOT MATURE. There is no magic product to make that fact disapear. It is commonly known as "new tank syndrome" and it happens with EVERY aquarium. Do some research on the subject here....Monster Fish Keepers. You will see that guys with 600 gallon tanks have to cycle even those before adding any fish.

-=krissi=- · #11 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 06:32 AM

the plecos will survive just about anything, especially if they are just cheapie garden variety plecos.
my ex used to keep one in an unfiltered 10g tank with a betta & goldfish. gosh did i hate him for that for so many reasons but that's beside the point haha.

that being said, even if they are little babies i wouldnl't go with 5 cichlids in a 10g. the pet store is NOT steering you in the right direction.
what species do you ultimately plan to keep? in a 10 you can only keep one of most species & even that's pushing it for a 10g. unless of course, you are going to upgrade to a larger tank.. then i'd say definitely rear them in a 10g.

i really have to agree with the other posts on this.
let the tank cycle & afterwards use as little chemicals as possible.
some fish are very tolerant but a lot of cichlids (even though they're "hardy") can be pretty touchy especially in a tank that small & overcrowded, even if you had quadruple the filtration recommended for a 10g.

also, instead of adding more fish I'd just add more "territory". having plants & hides for each fish in the tank will almost always cut down on aggression.

i'm really not trying to be argumentative here, i'm just looking out for the fish & your wallet.
it'll save you so much work & headache if you just wait it out until it's cycled.

spike06 · #12 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 10:06 PM

the only chemical i used is stress zyme, which is stuff with a lot of live good bacteria in it.i wouldnt have 7 fish. i would realy only have 5, my plecos are basically either sucking on the glass or on the driftwood. the 2 little african cichlids i picked up yesterday are doing great. they are active and swimming around a lot. and they had a few bites to eat today. dont think im just some kid that doesnt want to listen to peoples advice.i have been reading what u have all had to say and thinking it through. if the tank becomes overcrowded as the cichlids get bigger, i can always give 1 or 2 of them to the pet store.

mpgt · #13 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 10:13 PM

It is true. If you get Mbunas, the most popular African Cichlids from Lake Malawi, crowding them helps limit territorial aggression. At some point, a dominant male develops. Crowding keeps him from being able to relentlessly pursue a rival male or an unwilling female "partner". That's because there are more targets for his aggression. They are great fish. Good luck!!!!

mpgt · #14 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 10:16 PM

I've kept and bred them for over 20 yrs now. I really love them. Can you post some pics???

spike06 · #15 (**permalink**) 03-19-2007, 12:34 AM

ill try to get some pics tomorrow. what pics do u want?

mpgt · #16 (**permalink**) 03-19-2007, 12:45 AM

Cichlid pics

walls · #17 (**permalink**) 03-19-2007, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike06

the only chemical i used is stress zyme, which is stuff with a lot of live good bacteria in it.i wouldnt have 7 fish. i would realy only have 5, my plecos are basically either sucking on the glass or on the driftwood. the 2 little african cichlids i picked up yesterday are doing great. they are active and swimming around a lot. and they had a few bites to eat today. dont think im just some kid that doesnt want to listen to peoples advice.i have been reading what u have all had to say and thinking it through. if the tank becomes overcrowded as the cichlids get bigger, i can always give 1 or 2 of them to the pet store.

First Stress Zyme does NOTHING for the beneficial bio-load of the tank. I know of at least 2 importers that used it for a while during shipping but noticed absolutely no difference in the fish being shipped so they have discontinued use. The bacteria I am reffering to are nitrafying bacteria none of which can be found in the Stress Zyme.

Second you will have SEVEN fish. Right now you have FOUR. Whether they are free swimming or just "sucking to the glass" doesnt mean that they are not peeing and crapping in the tank. Pee and crap = BIOLOAD = SEVEN fish.

Yes your Plecs and little cichlids are swimming and looking great now........BUT...the ammonia level in the tank will soon rise and since the tank is NOT biologically matured it will rise to lethal levels. The plecs have been in the tank since the start and may be able to adjust but with the added load of the cichlids the cichlids most likely have not. And if you add more BEFORE the CYCLE can complete you WILL have a tank full of dead fish.
If I were you I would feed VERY little (maybe a few flakes every other day) and add NOTHING else until the cycle is complete, it usually takes a few weeks but can sometimes take months. Then and ONLY THEN you can add one or two more fish every few weeks. If you add too many the ammonia in the tank will spike yet again and have devestating effects.

I dont understand why you are getting so defensive. No one said you were a "kid" and no one is trying to start a fight. The things I have stated to you are just the way things are with fishkeeping. I have been keeping fresh and salt water fish for over 20 years and I am just trying to spare you the agony of watching your pets suffer. Besides if you dont believe me or the many many books and articles on the subject you can find out the hard way. Which by the way is how I found out YEARS ago!

-=krissi=- · #18 (**permalink**) 03-19-2007, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walls

Besides if you dont believe me or the many many books and articles on the subject you can find out the hard way. Which by the way is how I found out YEARS ago!

ditto! When I was younger I always used to push the limits of what I could pull off with a tank and I'd always regret it sooner or later... usually later. Just when you think you've defied everything you've heard or read is when they start dying off "for no reason!" heh.

So, anyway, back to the topic at hand... Where's the pics? I want to see the fishies!!!! I'm really interested in what you have because you still haven't answered that yet.

lol

spike06 · #19 (**permalink**) 03-20-2007, 01:03 AM

ill get some pics tommorow. i was busy today. i can keep the amonia lievels under control. i have a gravel vaccuum, i can do weekly vacuums and water changes if need be.i decided to only get 4 cichlids instead of 5. i also got 2 corys to help keep the gravel clean. dont start saying the tank is overcrowded, i dont want to hear it. at the moment its not, all the fish are under 2 inches except the plecos. i will be getting a larger tank in the next few months.

walls · #20 (**permalink**) 03-20-2007, 01:40 AM

Well OK then. For some reason you want to justify that everything I am saying to you is wrong and you have all the problems already solved. I still havent figured out why you get on the deffensive side without even being provoked. I was just trying to help, I was not being a {Mean Person}, and I was giving you SOLID advice. The things I have told you will save you money, time, aggrevation, and learning the BASICS the hard way.

I am going to leave you with one piece of advice that I actually hope you will consider. BUY A GOOD AQUARIUM BOOK, you need one.

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