Thinking about feeding LIVE? Welcome to the Live Pile

[amercnwmn]

That's good to know..
Snakes will still "kill" F/t prey if they aren't shy feeders and will take from tongs. So you can still get that "interest" of watching how they operate.

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	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

[JMN1981]

Thank you so much for this thread! I got my red tail boa about a month ago and a baby BP a week or so ago and until I read this thread during this week, I thought live feeding was the way to go (thanks to the pet store owner where I got my boa from). I'll be forever grateful to you all for this. I know someone threw a fit about the photos and stuff, but I found them an excellant way to help explain to my sons why its better to feed our snakes f/t. Im so glad that this information was easily available. I would have felt absolutely awful if one of my snakes had been hurt by its live prey.
Thank you so so much!

For the record....Both of our snakes took thier f/t meal without ANY problems!

[mpgt]

That's great JMN, and welcome to the site!!!

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[zsanorah]

Thats always wonderful to hear! All of mine were live feeders before I got them and Ive had no trouble what-so-ever with switching them over. Even got a few co-workers to make the switch.
and Welcome to RTB.Net your new second home.

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[philkilla]

Hi all. I just got my boa a few days ago, and I love it very much.

My room-mate has two corn snakes, and believes the live vs. dead feeding battle is a crock. I.E., he thinks feeding dead would "pussify" my snake so to say, and it isn't really necessary.

After looking at these pics and reading countless stories around the web, I'm more than a firm believer.

My boa is still a way off from eating rats (still a juvenile), and I have no problem with killing them personally. How high is the risk of parasitic infestation with feeding dead, un-frozen rats to my snake?

	Corn Snake The Corn Snake or Red Rat Snake (Elaphe guttata) is a species of Rat Snake.

[PythonGuy21]

pre killed is great, no worries, frozen is better if you get them to eat dead cause you can stock up in bulk kinda hard to stock up on pre-killed, personal preference at that point.

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[ja-rod4545]

ok, from the people that have read or seen my post they know im not the person who will debate, I like to sit back and watch what other people say ( hey im a pyschology major!) but i have to say there are just some snakes that wont switch to live prey... I know im gunna get grief for this but i dont care, some things you just cant change, just like patients i work with. pm me if you want to depate, it would be my pleasure.

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[philkilla]

Well, I fed mine for the first time today (I love fuzzy mouse) just to be sure she would eat...sure enough she did. (I had to soften the mouse up a bit and get her attention)

After now though, I'm sure feeding her dead to avoid stress and trouble.

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[SnakeBabe]

30 years and dozens and dozens of snakes from owners who said “they wont eat F/T” and they all do once we get them.
Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria

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	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

[ja-rod4545]

over the twelve years i have kept snakes and bred a bit I know there is always "some"

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[ja-rod4545]

Originally Posted by TekWarren

The methods in which I have used and consider "disabled" would be a state in which the prey item has lost the nuerological ability to control its motor abilities. Basically parts of it are still moving involuntarily as signals to the brain are trying to determine how to get where they need to go. No the rodent is not able to move on its own so in my experience some dancing may be needed and the rodent is still breathing to an extent which is an added stimulation...again in my experience. There are several methods, "whacking" I guess could be one if you can be precise enough not to destroy the animal with the force of the blow, there are Co2 methods, vertibrae points that can be broken, etc... I guess its just knowing how far to go to keep some "kick" in the prey item. Some methods could be considered cruel...but ultimately your putting the item to death either way. Do you put care into not causing harm to the rodent on its way to death...or do you not feed a problem reptile?? (assuming an animal that won't feed on PK/FT or one that is transitioning).
You have brought up another point. Transitioning is a whole other topic but yes I agree it can be done, I have no arguement about that whatsoever. This kinda goes along with my point about feeding "live" as considered in my personal methods of disabled items. With all this talk about how horrible it is to feed live items there is nothing to help new owners learn how to transition from one phase to the other. Its simply this is what will happen if you do this. Not a single post of recommendations or that it is ok to feed live and here are recommendations for feeding "live" (as I use the term) through the transition to PK/FT. To look at it from a new owner's stand point and just absorbing all kinds of new found information the messages conveyed are nearly read that if you are feeding live you should stop immediately and feed PK/FT. Sure the reptile may be fine if it doesn't feed for a month or two (this time frame does not need to be debated...its just a point) because it isn't adjusted for the drastic change in feeding methods...but is this really looking out for the well being of the animal?
I simply think that if there are going to be posts like this...and I am not going to be granted the courtesey of sharing my own experiences that there should be more in depth information followed up. TELL people how to get from one phase to the other and give them the methods to keep the reptile out of harms way. Don't just post a thread about how wrong it is with a bunch of discustingly gory images with no direction. The soul purpose of this thread states:
"The Live Pile is a thread dedicated to the horror stories of feeding your reptiles live prey items."
"Please only post an accurate description of what happened, pics if you have them and refrain from making comments on other's posts."
I'll be the first to admit I am 100% in the wrong as I have made personal comments (but not against any particular person or story) when it was specifically asked not to. Maybe I'm just to into the education factor and wanting to see responsible owners but 9 times out of 10 those that come are looking for just that, to become educated and the only thing I see this thread doing is creating nervous keepers who *could* be headed down the wrong path without proper guidence. In short this topic only touches a fraction of what should be put out on the subject.
Again I want to appologize that my comments have caused such an uproar and that I seem to be the cause of this topic's derailment, this is not at all what I had intended and i do not wish to cause any more of a problem. Anyone who wishes to "convey" they thoughts to me please use PM's or IM's.

No!!! its hypocracy!!!

[morti]

Ladies and gentlemen: We have a debate forum setup for debating debates. Further debating this debate will result in the debate being removed (but that's debatable). Please debate your debate in the debate forum which was setup for debating.

The particular thread in the debate forums where this would fit is:
http://redtailboa.net/forums/debate/...te-v1-0-a.html

Thank you for your debatable contribution.
-Your Sick Uncle Morti

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[tmangt7]

since i cant access the thread of debating, im just gonna say i dont wana start a debate or anything, but i dont think that feeding live is THAT big of a harm, although i can see how it is, if u feed ur snake a rat or mouse that would pose a threat to him/her then u get the results of these pictures, my friends with snakes, my step dad that housed a 2 year old 10 ft anaconda, nor i EVER had problems with feeding live *knock on wood*. im not talking about "not being able to switch over" i havent tried it, nor will i be thinking about it anytime soon. im just simply stating that if you feed ur snake the CORRECT size mouse/rat then there should be no problem at all, nonetheless the mouse/rats mouth opens gasping for air and whatnot, these snakes or at least mine, isnt made of tissue paper, it takes a helluva bite or scratch, but once she gets bigger, i will think about using leather gloves and melting the teeth and claws BEFORE throwin it in ta get fed, before i think about going to f/t.

thats my take. love me hate me.
it all makes me.

one love.

[louise]

Originally Posted by tmangt7

since i cant access the thread of debating, im just gonna say i dont wana start a debate or anything, but i dont think that feeding live is THAT big of a harm, although i can see how it is, if u feed ur snake a rat or mouse that would pose a threat to him/her then u get the results of these pictures, my friends with snakes, my step dad that housed a 2 year old 10 ft anaconda, nor i EVER had problems with feeding live *knock on wood*. im not talking about "not being able to switch over" i havent tried it, nor will i be thinking about it anytime soon. im just simply stating that if you feed ur snake the CORRECT size mouse/rat then there should be no problem at all, nonetheless the mouse/rats mouth opens gasping for air and whatnot, these snakes or at least mine, isnt made of tissue paper, it takes a helluva bite or scratch, but once she gets bigger, i will think about using leather gloves and melting the teeth and claws BEFORE throwin it in ta get fed, before i think about going to f/t.
thats my take. love me hate me.
it all makes me.
one love.

well i hope your luck and your snakes luck dont run out

[Adrya]

Originally Posted by tmangt7

but once she gets bigger, i will think about using leather gloves and melting the teeth and claws BEFORE throwin it in ta get fed, before i think about going to f/t.

Are you friggin' delusional? Are you serious? To a live animal? You just gave me the most sickening image in my mind.

That's animal cruelty. People get arrested for that.


It does not matter if the prey is the "correct size" or not. If it is weaned and eating on its own, it's big enough to have teeth, and WILL bite.

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

[tmangt7]

Originally Posted by Adrya_Webb

Are you friggin' delusional? Are you serious? To a live animal? You just gave me the most sickening image in my mind.
That's animal cruelty. People get arrested for that.
It does not matter if the prey is the "correct size" or not. If it is weaned and eating on its own, it's big enough to have teeth, and WILL bite.

ok maybe i said that wrong, i said i would THINK about doing that BEFORE feeding f/t. i know rats and mice bite, but as i said IMO the simple fact is who i talk to and who i associate with, (yeah they might be undermined from you guys) there isnt anything wrong with feeding live mice. THATS ME AND MY OPINION, ive seen pics ive done research and yeah people say that THEY recomend the F/T over live, but not me. say what you want, and i will do AS I PLEASE.

	In My Opinon IMO = In My Opinion and IMHO = In My Honest Opinion

[tmangt7]

Originally Posted by louise

well i hope your luck and your snakes luck dont run out

i dont see it as luck at all, if anything its friggin FATE. but thank you anyways i guess...

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[whosmagoo]

Originally Posted by tmangt7

once she gets bigger, i will think about using leather gloves and melting the teeth and claws BEFORE throwin it in ta get fed, before i think about going to f/t.

That's really messed up.
That would be my opinion of an bad thing to do.

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	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

[_Sam_]

Originally Posted by Adrya_Webb

Are you friggin' delusional? Are you serious? To a live animal? You just gave me the most sickening image in my mind.
That's animal cruelty. People get arrested for that.
It does not matter if the prey is the "correct size" or not. If it is weaned and eating on its own, it's big enough to have teeth, and WILL bite.

i completely agree Adrya.

that is one sick thing to do. Like adrya, you have just put the most horrible image in my mind. how could you do that to an animal?!?! it's sick. Just becuase you HAVEN'T had a problem YET doesn't mean you won't one day. I am not wishing any harm on your snakes, but I really wish you would give thought to feeding F/T because not giving any thought whatsoever is ignorant and irresponsible.

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

[louise]

OMG. that is crazy.

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