Thinking about feeding LIVE? Welcome to the Live Pile

[unluckyseventeen]

Well done Quazi. Well done indeed. I'm surprised you even managed to get him back up to speed given you've never handled snakes. He must have been one tough guy to come back all the way from being down that far.

[jonjpl]

Wow Quazi, That is some story. It is an awesome thing that you have done overcome your fear of snake so that you can offer a new and better life to one. I commend you. You are a real hero! ! I'm glad that things are working out for both of you.

[quazi]

Thanks guys, yes I know we are both very lucky. My Bf has had snakes before but he had enough to deal with with his own pets so he told me it was all me he didn't want to get involved because it looked like the snake wasn't going to make it.

He did and I love my quazi. Now knowing what this is though I am going to go back to the anti bio cream and peroxide water, I had no clue that is what he had/has but he is healing up so well but now I'm scared that it can continue to get worse.

Do you guys think his face will form back to somewhat normal?

I am going to take some pictures of him as soon as he wakes up and comes out of his hut so you gys can see him. I just keep wondering if his face will shape up, I know probably not perfect, it has grown quite a bit maybe 1-1.5 inches when I got his his face began where his eyes were.

Thanks! Any other ideas as to what to do, I'm worried now that he might still be in danger of getting bad again. Can I tell? His face use to be all red and slimy now it's thick white like his meat I guess, not real red but it scabs over and peels, then again and again, usually peels off when he eats. But seems to get better each time. I noticed his little teeth are back inside his mouth but he is still missing part of his top jaw.

Any advice would help.

[louise]

i really feel he needs to see a vet. if the infection is that bad he will need baytril shots.

[TekWarren]

ok...I'm sorry but this is just WAY uncalled for. WHY on earth wwould one feel the need to have a topic dedicated such horror stories...and images! I had alot of thoughts shared on another topic about live feeding and how people try and tell others its wrong. IT IS NOT WRONG! if an animal will not eat any other way...feed it live. If the owner is responsible enough and takes precautions...it is not wrong. I absolutely HATE when people try and force this "rule" on others. Yes I to would RECOMMEND PK or FT but to tell someone they are wrong is just out of line and I for one am completely appalled that someone would endorse a dedicated threads to pics of this nature.

[wreckwriter]

I guess we can assume that you feed live, huh? Snake just won't eat any other way, right?

[louise]

:cuss:

Originally Posted by TekWarren

ok...I'm sorry but this is just WAY uncalled for. WHY on earth wwould one feel the need to have a topic dedicated such horror stories...and images! I had alot of thoughts shared on another topic about live feeding and how people try and tell others its wrong. IT IS NOT WRONG! if an animal will not eat any other way...feed it live. If the owner is responsible enough and takes precautions...it is not wrong. I absolutely HATE when people try and force this "rule" on others. Yes I to would RECOMMEND PK or FT but to tell someone they are wrong is just out of line and I for one am completely appalled that someone would endorse a dedicated threads to pics of this nature.

:cuss: i am gonna try really hard not to cuss and swear at you. do these pictures not show you anything!!! live feeding can mangle and kill a snake! why is there a topic on just this???? because real snake lovers care what can and more then likely will happen. i need to stop cause i dont want to get banned from here and if i keep going it is a sure thing i will be! all i can say is i pray the best for your poor snakes.

[quazi]

My feeling about feeding LIVE because the snake won't eat, is, it's easy when they are little mice but when it's rats it is way harder to help and supervise. I know first hand, being a first time snake owner and having to help Quazi with his feedings. Helping him with mice was a piece of cake, I'd interfere with a pencil or whatever if he grabbed him the wrong way so the mouse would not bite.

BUT, BUT no matter how responsible you are and how much you SUPERVISE, there is a big chance those mean big rats will bite, they are mean. I have found it very stressful for me to have to help him with the rats because they are not stupid, they want to hurt what is hurting them.

It is not said that you HAVE to feed dead but it is much healthier for the animal if they do, I am trying now to get him to eat dead, I could keep him on live but WHY? so he can have an accident and end up the way he use to be? It's really not worth it. I only did dead because I had no clue what he was use to and he had issues eating so I did it only to catch his attention quickly.

It was cool at first to watch my friends eat but then he got bit on the head by a big rat, guess what he was eating after that? DEAD rats.

I found this post to be very helpful, yes I gasped and couldn't believe the images but after 8 months this is how I found out what Quazi had. THANKS FOR THIS POST!!!

[wreckwriter]

Louise, don't let it get to you, he's just trying to justify poor practices.

Quazi, please don't think a mouse can't do damage too, it can.

[TekWarren]

apparently wreckwriter doesn't read all of the posts here. For your information NO I do NOT feed live. Only when I have to will I do this and I have enough experience and common sense to carry it out without a single animal harmed over the years. My point again which "some" are not able to read, is that telling people it is wrong is bogus. How can you know what every single animal is like and what every situation is out there to make such a "standard" for feeding reptiles?? That and endorsing such grotesk images where the only two points I was trying to make. I appologize if that is to hard to grasp.

I also can't help but laugh when someone who has no clue of another person's experience and knowledge of reptiles...tells them they have "poor practices". Hrm so I've been doing it wrong for all these years. Maybe you would like to personally inform me of your credentials, years of experience, and your "standards" for keeping reptiles that can be applied to multiple species?

[Livia]

People seem to have this notion that you have to leave a snake with its food for a long period of time for something bad to happen, which is just plain wrong. All it takes is a split second for a rat or mouse to rip out an eye or bite down to the bone of a snake. The only real precaution one can take is not feeding live. Yes, there are hard cases, but it doesn't excuse doing everything you can to protect your pet and doing your damnedest to get them on prekilled. If you can't take the gory pictures, don't ever put your pet in a situation to end up looking like one of them. It is much worse in person, trust me.

This is Goner, one of the dumbest cases of live feeding I've ever come across. The owner was arrested, hauled away... and the cops saw the snakes in the house, figured they'd throw some food at them to hold them over. Unfortunately there was no heat in the house, so it was in the low 50s at the time the snakes were removed. Who knows how cold it actually got. The snakes weren't moving, but the rats were hungry...


This is the second boa at the same place, not as bad as Goner, but still had several bites all down his back:

They were both rehabbed and rehomed.

Here is Freezer Bait, a speckled king that was left overnight with a fuzzy mouse, the owner didn't even know he was bitten until infection had already set in. He was unresponsive to treatment.


Rehab work and pictures by Ravnos@HerpWorld.

[garrett]

omg, the first boat bite is so sad...how could someone but there pets threw so much pain.

[TekWarren]

I am not saying I can't take the gory snake pictures...I've seen humans in worse conditions (not from rodent attacks of course). My comment on that end is more geared towards young owners and children who I'm sure visit this site. I wonder how many parents would approve of their children observing such horrific images without a very well presented warning? If your trying to scare away newcomers to this hobby then I'm sure this topic will be a direct hit.

I do want to appologize for my getting heated, but the personal attack above which is only derrived from an assumption is just out of line and immature. I probably shouldnt' have even gotten involved in this topic. It just makes me mad the way people convey this particular topic...its like they think all snakes are perfect and you should not feed unless you are feeding pre-killed. I for one will not withold a meal if I know an animal will take a disabled live prey item.

Again I am sorry and I will do my best to stay away from further comments on this topic.

-TW

[louise]

livia those pictures should change anyones mind thanks for sharing them. maybe it will wake some people up.

[wreckwriter]

Originally Posted by TekWarren

apparently wreckwriter doesn't read all of the posts here. For your information NO I do NOT feed live. Only when I have to will I do this and I have enough experience and common sense to carry it out without a single animal harmed over the years. My point again which "some" are not able to read, is that telling people it is wrong is bogus. How can you know what every single animal is like and what every situation is out there to make such a "standard" for feeding reptiles?? That and endorsing such grotesk images where the only two points I was trying to make. I appologize if that is to hard to grasp.

I also can't help but laugh when someone who has no clue of another person's experience and knowledge of reptiles...tells them they have "poor practices". Hrm so I've been doing it wrong for all these years. Maybe you would like to personally inform me of your credentials, years of experience, and your "standards" for keeping reptiles that can be applied to multiple species?

Yea, I'm sure I'm the only who assumed that you do feed live based on your snotty comments about a thread which most people here fully support and believe has done much good in giving new owners legitimate and concrete reasons for not feeding live.

We don't feel that it is bogus, either the practice of saying its wrong (in 99% of all cases) or the use of the "grotesk" pictures to drive home the point. We feel that it gives an excellent point of reference which can be used by those who argue against live feeding.

As for me, I have no "credentials" involving herps, but I do have nearly 40 years experience in keeping them. My "standards"? I guess a few would be to not keep more animals than I can take care of, not keep animals which are beyond the scope of my experience, house correctly and safely, and feed adaquately and safely. If you're looking for something else, other than just an argument, please specify.

WW

[wreckwriter]

Give me bad rep points too? That's cute. "Uncalled for personal attacks"? You call that a personal attack? Maybe you don't get out much huh? Looks to me like you got a whole lot more personal than I did, several times even.

[louise]

wreckwriter i wouldn't even bother with that guy if i was you. you have helped alot of people on this site and another. so far all i have seen this person do is try to justify live feeding. your standards on keeping snakes is awesome.

[louise]

Originally Posted by wreckwriter

Give me bad rep points too? That's cute. "Uncalled for personal attacks"? You call that a personal attack? Maybe you don't get out much huh? Looks to me like you got a whole lot more personal than I did, several times even.

well i just gave you good rep points i got some for this thread too.

[TekWarren]

I gave you ONE neg rep point...not that it matters its all just a game. I have went from I think 4 or 5 down to 2 in this thread alone. That's fine though it means nothing to me. I never once personally attacked anyone. YOU DID and continue to do so with such comments as "you must not get out much" PLEASE you are continuing to have fun trying to shoot me down for reasons unkown based on your biased assumptions of me when you don't really have a clue do you. I am not here for an arguement at all, it is clearly stated by YOU that I am only trying to "justify poor practices" Tell me that's not something that would get you hot and create sparks?? When I simply implied two points neither of which had anything to do with promoting the use of live food items for reptiles. I at least was man enough to see that I was out of line and openly appologized, CLEARLY it is you looking for an argument as you continue to push the subject and my buttons.

I wish you other people could see what my points are rather than continue to think down upon me for what you THINK I am condoning... I simply stated that the images here may not be the best method nor appropriate for some visitors. I only say that for the well being of the site to PREVENT problems that could arrise should someone not clearly understand the warning and the message the pictures are meant to represent. My other point AGAIN is simply the way the message of how the subject of live feeding is conveyed. If you (or anyone) has been keeping reptiles for over 40yrs then you very well know not every animal you come in contact with is going to "abide" by this "rule". I was only trying suggest a change of tone such as using the word "recommended" rather than making seem like a sin to feed live. I stated I will feed DISABLED live...if I have to. I have not seen a single post here touching on the subject of feeding disabled live. Its like its black and white for this topic and this is just not so.

To those of you who actually read all of this I sincerely thank you for your time. I am not here to cause trouble and if personal oppinions and experiences are not welcome well then I do appologize for trying to soften this subject for those who do not have the knowledge many of us have. To WW...I don't know what want with me. If you must continue with your personal comments I think private messages would be more appropriate rather than turning this thread into a gang beating. I invite any private comments, I don't know why its so hard to get 2 simple points across without being lashed out againts but I will definately take the time to explain it for those who still think wrongly of what I am saying.

-TW

[quazi]

I agree, this post is helpful. After looking at those pictures I am even more motivated to get my guy over to dead rats.

These pictures are like a crash course of what NOT to do.