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[M2788]

I thought I'd add a recent experience of my best friend's to this list. My friend owns a beautiful male snow BCI named Snowman that has been one of the sweetest snakes she has. She always feeds pre-killed or frozen/thawed in order not to put any of her snakes in danger.

Well, last week she was feeding her snakes, 'bopped' a rat for Snowman, waited until she was sure it was dead, and then threw it in the cage for him. He doesn't like to eat if someone is watching, so she left him alone with it for a few minutes and waited for him to eat it. My friend was pregnant and suddenly felt an extremely sharp pain in her abdomen. She thought it could be serious, so she checked on Snowman one more time and then her fiancé rushed her off to the emergency room. It did turn out to be serious and she ended up miscarrying. To make matters worse, she came home from the hospital to find out that apparently she hadn’t bopped the rat hard as she thought. She found her snow wrapped around the rat, and Snowman had a hole chewed through the top of his skull. Both her snake and the rat were dead.

Needless to say; my friend is having an extremely difficult time right now with both devastating losses, and is guilt-ridden for not staying with Snowman despite the extenuating circumstances. It would be greatly appreciated if everyone on here who is the praying sort would be willing to toss a few in her direction.

She didn’t want what happened with Snowman to be for naught, and gave me permission to type up what happened to her and post this story here as a very firm reminder that just because the rat looks dead, doesn’t mean that it is. Please, please for the safety of your pet; feed Frozen/thawed, and if that isn’t practical and you have to feed pre-killed, stay in with the snake or at the very least regularly check in on it until your snake has finished eating. Needless to say; this is even more essential if you are the owner of one of the 1% that just won’t take pre-killed.

I sincerely hope that this story will help to make sure that no one else learns this heartbreaking lesson in the same fashion as my best friend did.

	Boa Constrictor Imperator Boa Constrictor (Boa constrictor imperator). Most common is the Colombian Boa.

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	Toss To Throw

[skydvejam]

Originally Posted by M2788

I thought I'd add a recent experience of my best friend's to this list. My friend owns a beautiful male snow BCI named Snowman that has been one of the sweetest snakes she has. She always feeds pre-killed or frozen/thawed in order not to put any of her snakes in danger.
Well, last week she was feeding her snakes, 'bopped' a rat for Snowman, waited until she was sure it was dead, and then threw it in the cage for him. He doesn't like to eat if someone is watching, so she left him alone with it for a few minutes and waited for him to eat it. My friend was pregnant and suddenly felt an extremely sharp pain in her abdomen. She thought it could be serious, so she checked on Snowman one more time and then her fiancé rushed her off to the emergency room. It did turn out to be serious and she ended up miscarrying. To make matters worse, she came home from the hospital to find out that apparently she hadn’t bopped the rat hard as she thought. She found her snow wrapped around the rat, and Snowman had a hole chewed through the top of his skull. Both her snake and the rat were dead.
Needless to say; my friend is having an extremely difficult time right now with both devastating losses, and is guilt-ridden for not staying with Snowman despite the extenuating circumstances. It would be greatly appreciated if everyone on here who is the praying sort would be willing to toss a few in her direction.
She didn’t want what happened with Snowman to be for naught, and gave me permission to type up what happened to her and post this story here as a very firm reminder that just because the rat looks dead, doesn’t mean that it is. Please, please for the safety of your pet; feed Frozen/thawed, and if that isn’t practical and you have to feed pre-killed, stay in with the snake or at the very least regularly check in on it until your snake has finished eating. Needless to say; this is even more essential if you are the owner of one of the 1% that just won’t take pre-killed.
I sincerely hope that this story will help to make sure that no one else learns this heartbreaking lesson in the same fashion as my best friend did.

I will put some positive thoughts and energy towards your friend.
That is why for my snakes that will not eat F/T and have to do F/K I gas them. The other plus as I have said before about gassing the critters, and anything else that might be riding on them gets gassed too. Granted I let the CO2 sit in the chamber for at least 10 minutes after I see the mouse stop breathing, this serves 2 purposes, ensures that the food is dead, and anything hanging on the outside such as mites are dead too.
So sorry to hear your friend went through all of that.

	Boa Constrictor Imperator Boa Constrictor (Boa constrictor imperator). Most common is the Colombian Boa.

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

	Toss To Throw

[Vinny]

M2788, Im sorry to hear about your friend's losses. I will pray for her and her family, I can see why she felt guilty about the snake. But when something like a miscarage occures right at the same time, their is nothing she can do about it. Give her my blessing's. Their is light at the end of the tunnel!!!!

-Vinny

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[ChelsyC]

Originally Posted by M2788

I thought I'd add a recent experience of my best friend's to this list. My friend owns a beautiful male snow BCI named Snowman that has been one of the sweetest snakes she has. She always feeds pre-killed or frozen/thawed in order not to put any of her snakes in danger.
Well, last week she was feeding her snakes, 'bopped' a rat for Snowman, waited until she was sure it was dead, and then threw it in the cage for him. He doesn't like to eat if someone is watching, so she left him alone with it for a few minutes and waited for him to eat it. My friend was pregnant and suddenly felt an extremely sharp pain in her abdomen. She thought it could be serious, so she checked on Snowman one more time and then her fiancé rushed her off to the emergency room. It did turn out to be serious and she ended up miscarrying. To make matters worse, she came home from the hospital to find out that apparently she hadn’t bopped the rat hard as she thought. She found her snow wrapped around the rat, and Snowman had a hole chewed through the top of his skull. Both her snake and the rat were dead.
Needless to say; my friend is having an extremely difficult time right now with both devastating losses, and is guilt-ridden for not staying with Snowman despite the extenuating circumstances. It would be greatly appreciated if everyone on here who is the praying sort would be willing to toss a few in her direction.
She didn’t want what happened with Snowman to be for naught, and gave me permission to type up what happened to her and post this story here as a very firm reminder that just because the rat looks dead, doesn’t mean that it is. Please, please for the safety of your pet; feed Frozen/thawed, and if that isn’t practical and you have to feed pre-killed, stay in with the snake or at the very least regularly check in on it until your snake has finished eating. Needless to say; this is even more essential if you are the owner of one of the 1% that just won’t take pre-killed.
I sincerely hope that this story will help to make sure that no one else learns this heartbreaking lesson in the same fashion as my best friend did.

That is awful and I'm truly sorry it had to happen to your friend.

	Boa Constrictor Imperator Boa Constrictor (Boa constrictor imperator). Most common is the Colombian Boa.

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	Toss To Throw

[Sakara]

that's a terrible story. I'm so sorry for ur friends losses that's terrible to lose either one but both, and the same day I'm so sorry

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[carolyn_snakegirl]

yeah it seriously took me an hour and a half to read this thing lol and man did i go through alot of emotions, sadness, anger, suprise, shock. it was quite exhausting lol. but i now have a story to tell myself. i am a huge fan of f/t. first off it's the safest for my babies, second my heart breaks when i hear the animals squeak as they die and third its cheapest (if i order from rodentpro i save a ridiculous amount of money ) now my best friend, who's a guy, always feeds live despite my constant pleads to get him to switch over. well he kept saying "their fine i watch em' like a hawk." well one day he wasn't as focused on the feed, and suprise suprise the rat bit the ball python. it wasn't too bad a bite it will heal in 4or 5 sheds but still its the principle of the matter. i'm telling you the only thing that kept me from jumping in his face and saying "i told you so, i told you so!!" was the sadness i felt when i looked at the snake and saw that this wasn't about brandon being wrong it was about the safety of the snake. it broke my heart. and after all that, he still is hesitant to feed f/t, i'm like come on seriously?! he just doesn't know where he'd get frozen rats, which is just an excuse cause if u call the petstore and tell them the size rats you want they'll kill them and freeze them for u and all u have to do is pick them up the next day, i use to do it all the time.

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

[M2788]

Originally Posted by carolyn_snakegirl

yeah it seriously took me an hour and a half to read this thing lol and man did i go through alot of emotions, sadness, anger, suprise, shock. it was quite exhausting lol. but i now have a story to tell myself. i am a huge fan of f/t. first off it's the safest for my babies, second my heart breaks when i hear the animals squeak as they die and third its cheapest (if i order from rodentpro i save a ridiculous amount of money ) now my best friend, who's a guy, always feeds live despite my constant pleads to get him to switch over. well he kept saying "their fine i watch em' like a hawk." well one day he wasn't as focused on the feed, and suprise suprise the rat bit the ball python. it wasn't too bad a bite it will heal in 4or 5 sheds but still its the principle of the matter. i'm telling you the only thing that kept me from jumping in his face and saying "i told you so, i told you so!!" was the sadness i felt when i looked at the snake and saw that this wasn't about brandon being wrong it was about the safety of the snake. it broke my heart. and after all that, he still is hesitant to feed f/t, i'm like come on seriously?! he just doesn't know where he'd get frozen rats, which is just an excuse cause if u call the petstore and tell them the size rats you want they'll kill them and freeze them for u and all u have to do is pick them up the next day, i use to do it all the time.

I'm really sorry to hear that; it is awful when someone stubbornly refuses to feed pre-killed or frozen thawed at the detriment of their pets, but it is even worse when after he has already had a bite happen, he is still reluctant to switch over. I sincerely hope that you'll be able to get through to him before something even more serious happens to one of his pets. Have you considered showing him this thread? That might give him a wake-up call.

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

[Vinny]

The only time i have EVER fed live was for my Bitis, Atheris, and, Bothrops species of venomous snake's. Even the Cobras got f/t or p/k. Those were the only exception's i have ever made. And it's still dangerous for the snake, so i was always right their with tongs to grab the rats head if the snake were to get a bad bite. I never had to help the snake's, but i was 100% focused on the feeding!!!

-Vinny

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

[carolyn_snakegirl]

Originally Posted by M2788

I'm really sorry to hear that; it is awful when someone stubbornly refuses to feed pre-killed or frozen thawed at the detriment of their pets, but it is even worse when after he has already had a bite happen, he is still reluctant to switch over. I sincerely hope that you'll be able to get through to him before something even more serious happens to one of his pets. Have you considered showing him this thread? That might give him a wake-up call.

yeah i was so angry when he still had reservations about feeding f/t. i mean come on its not that hard u buy the rat you lay it out or submerge it in warm water leave it alone for a while come back and toss it in the cage or dangle it and then when the snake has it you walk away and ur done. if anything its easier cause you don't have to sit there and watch them like a hawk. when i saw the thread i knew i was gonna have to show him this, and i find that sad that someone has to be told horror stories and see gruesome pictures to change their mind, it should not be that difficult of a decision

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

	Toss To Throw

[louise]

when i first wrote this thread i was positive anyone who seen it would change their minds. positive. then through the years i have seen people who this thread has not affected at all, they still feed live.
somewhere inbetween that time and now i came to the horrible realization that htere are some people who just dont care and no matter what i said or did it was not gonna change.
the hardest lesson i have learned since owning snakes is 'i cannot save them all.' i use to try though

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[Vinny]

Louise, You did the only thing you could have done. You cant change someone who has their mind set on feeding life food to their reptiles. I just hope they will not have to learn the hard way, like many of us have. I think you did the best you could have done. Even if you changed one person's opinion on feeding live you did great!!!

-Vinny

[Hairless]

Originally Posted by VinnyD

Even if you changed one person's opinion on feeding live you did great!!!
-Vinny

That would be very true...but thankfully I think this thread has had a huge impact on an uncountable number of people (members and the lurking searchers).
Thanks Louise!

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[Stargazer]

It's true. Some people just don't care--about their animals, their kids, or even themselves. But you can't focus on those. You have probably helped hundreds, maybe even thousands with this thread.

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[Vinny]

Star that is very true!!

-Vinny

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[louise]

thanks.

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[Sakara]

I have 2 short examples.

The little boa I was snake sitting for a while... She and all the newbies were on live. I switched them all to frozen no problem. My buddy came and got her back and was feeding live again. He gave her back to me to watch for a week and that eneded up being about a month. She ate frozen the whole time. He finally decided he wanted her back so I gave him 4 frozen rats to last him a month or so. I had gone to my herp store to get a hopper for my anery cuz buying 100 bulk hoppers is crazy and I saw him in there getting a rat. I asked him about it and he said, "well my buddies wanna see her eat a live one" I was soooooo mad. And proceded to tell him that he's gonna end up bringing her back to me with bite wounds and giving me some crap excuse. And he knows I'd take her back cause I love that little snake. To make it worse we went over there the next day to show them the bike and she was still in her feeding bin with no water, substrate or heat. I was enraged. He told me to watch out cause she was always trying to bite them and bit his wife. I put my hand in there she came right over and wraped around my arm and I put her back in her warm tank. I don't care who says what about a snake but they have to know who takes care of them. Especially for that "terrible biting snake" to willing come right out for me when she apparently shows aggression toward them

Example 2... One of my sgts use to have a boa before he had to go to Korea for a year. Well he got an albino burm a few months back. I explained the feeding live issue to him and he just doesn't care like straight up drops the live rats in and let's his burm "hunt" them. He said the snake has gotten bit up a few times and if he doesn't wanna get bit that he can learn to bite them on the face only thing I could say was, if u ever don't want him or something, let me know

It makes me soooo mad. Especially when ppl just let the snakes get bit like that. And my "buddy" just angers me soooo bad. Specially after I GAVE him frozen rats for her

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	Anerythristic A recessive genetic mutation in which the animal is void of red pigment.

[XxPython_ChicxX]

Them poor things, I think people should difinatly read all they can about snakes before they get them, i see to many cases where people feed them live and this happens sad.

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[skydvejam]

I can not tell you, ever since finding this thread how many people I have pointed this way. I use this thread, and this site a lot on my answers for yahoo answers.
I just hope that a lot of them take this to heart.

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[cashhugger]

i feed both my boas f/t. when i got my colombian at 2 months, she was fed live. it was a pain in the rear to switch her over to f/t. she went a little over a month not accepting food, but persistence paid off and now she has an amazing feeding response. my 8 month central boa takes the food before i can even put it down lol. right about when i open the top to drop it in, he gets it before it hits the ground.

i would prefer to always feed my snakes f/t but in the occasion of my b/p i have had to change that. i got him when he was about 1 and he would not eat. he spent about 6 months not eating. i tried everything. the coffee can trick, the paper bag trick, overnight in a container trick, dangling trick, in the cage trick. i tried EVERYTHING. he will only accept live food. i think it was because he had been fed live all his life. im slowly switching him over to f/t by feeding him frozen in the mix of live, and as the months go on, more and more frozen then live.

i will say, i will NEVER and have NEVER left my snake alone with any bit of live food. i will not even sit and watch tv. my eyes are on that snake until that thing is dead. and the rat gets too curious, i push him away. its usually dead within 2 minutes though.

i must admit rats are smarter then mice. they actually jump when my bp strikes too slow. eventually he'll be switched to f/t. until then, he'll be watched like a hawk. ive never had any injury substained and im pretty sure i never will.

i highly recommend f/t.

	Ball Python The Ball Python (Python regius), also known as the Royal Python, is a ground dwelling snake native to the savannahs and rain forests in western Africa, predominatly the countries of Ghana, Togo, and Benin.

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

[Ruckspin]

I know this isn't a news flash for some but I intend it to be a cautionary tale for the rest

Athena is an eight year old, seven foot Colombian red tail. She has always eaten live prey. Until recently she was eating two large rats at a time. I never had to supervise it, just put her in the feed cage, drop in the rats and get her in the morning. I tried transitioning her to frozen five years ago but she wouldn't have it.

It was a routine feeding. I woke up in the morning and went to get her from the feed cage. When I pulled the cover off, I found the rat eating her. Not fighting, just perched on top of her biting and eating. She was balled up and not fighting back. I pulled the rat out and after dealing with it I surveyed the damage. Athena had five gaping wounds and her face was covered in blood. You could see her spine in three of them. The vet would later tell me he found teeth marks on her spine.

Athena spent the next ten days in an incubator. Infection had set in and she was severely dehydrated from loss of blood. This resulted in injections of anti-biotics and saline solution. She was able to come home for a week but since the wounds couldn't be closed, the were filled with a burn cream and wet gauze was stitched over them.

Athena will never be the same. She strikes at everything now and for the first time in eight years I have heard her hiss. She will be scarred for life. She goes in this Thursday for surgery(first of three) to close some of the wounds. I have spent $350 at the vet with another $800 to come and worse is the pain I have caused my beloved pet.

I thought feeding her live was somehow enriching, letting her hunt her prey. Please transition your snakes to prekill so you don't have to go through this.

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