the fun of feeding

[Dr.Oviparous]

I'm with Constrictor all the way on this one, I'm sure most of us here prefer to feed in seperate "lunchboxes". but I guess to each his own. -Juggalo
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[LdyDrgn]

I feed in the enclosures and also have had NO problem when reaching in to do maintenance. They come over, smell me and will either crawl up my arm or turn away. I'm in there so often that they don't automatically think "food".
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[Jack_Daniels]

Ok this takes us back to the statement saying, I open any given cage so many times, that the boa doesnt assume food... Id be willing to bet that if you or I could get into my boas minds, they dont even realize I have anything to do with feeding time... because usually I have the door open ( 45 degree angle ).. the rabbit/rat inside, and the door closed before the snake realizes Im around.. Id be willing to bet in the boas mind, that rabbit or rat just happened along making the mistake of crossing the boas path... I feed ALL my boas in their full time cages (unless I have more than one together).... and my boas, more than just a single one...so multiple personalities agree... are as sweet as can be, any time I open the cage... the only thing that elicits a strike.. or any agression, is the smell of food...period.

"You on the other hand, you still have to reach into it's feed container since you feed in their tanks that they live in. "

I do? when? My arms out before the rabbits struck..

The original topics kind of being stray'd from, which is... A boa should never take the door opening, as an instant sign of food....UNLESS.... the only time the door opens, is for food...

If a boa could/does remember, and count the times, a rat comes through that door... It could also remember, all the times the "annoying guy" comes in to change water...take temps... handle the snake...clean the cage...etc..etc.. Statisticly, all the latter, would "dilute" the actual times that a rodent comes in...

So again I say.. how many times does your flesh.. come within range of the possiblity of being struck and constricted.... as compared to my flesh, which is back outside a locked cage door, before the boa goes into its feeding "zone"...

Regardless, I'll trust you know what you're doing.. for your sake and the snakes.. And I'll give you the peace of mind in knowing that I wont come into any harm.. unless rats in the air, my boas are sweet as can be..


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[Constrictor_BO]

No two snakes are alike. What one does, another will do different. I guess we both have proved that here.
I have had several of my snakes to have that feed response when fed in there enclosure for a several feedings. For several days after being fed they act kinda aggressive like they are looking for food to be there. I do get my snakes out often so it isnt like they only got fed there and nothing else.

You on the other hand have not had this happen. I know for a fact that there are people who has had this "response" happen with their snakes, and I also know people who feed in their enclosures like you do and NOT have the "response". Everyone here on this site has their ways of doing things. You dont agree with me, I dont really agree with you. But we both feed the way we do and get the same results.

People can choose to feed the way they want. I just hope they pay attention to how their snakes react and make needed changes to make it safe for them. They too might have the same luck that you have had and not have to worry about their snake lashing out in that feeding response. If not, they can make the change and feed the snake the way I feed mine.
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[Jack_Daniels]

My snakes are better than yours [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]
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[JuliusSqueezer]

Jack, it is obvious you have a fear of snakes and should probably take up stamp collecting. Your snake psychology is based on the theory that they can form thoughts the same way we do. They do not. It has been proven over and over again that many snakes are less aggressive when fed away from the cage. If you have experience that you can share and recorded data proving otherwise with comparisons please share with us. I do not feel that you are qualified to tell us what snakes think though.

Important question: What type substrate is in your cages?
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[najaboy]

A snake fed in its enclosure is no more likely to exhibit aggressive behavior than one fed outside the enclosure.

The premise that snakes will come to associate opening of the enclosure with feeding is a faulty one. Snakes, just like any other animal, can be conditioned to anticipate a response. However, the anticipation is limited to the most likely response, based on previous experiences. Sakes are indeed intelligent animals (as evidenced by their ability to navigate mazes in lab settings), however, they generally lack the ability to forecast random events.

Applicable references:
Wagner, A. R., & Brandon, S. E. (2001). A componential theory of Pavlovian conditioning. In R. R. Mowrer & S. B. Klein (Eds.), Handbook of contemporary learning theory. Erlbaum.

Timberlake, W. (1999). Biological behaviorism. In W. O'Donohue & R. Kitchener (Eds.), Handbook of behaviorism. New York: Academic Press.

Dragoi, V. & Staddon, J. E. R. (1999). The dynamics of operant conditioning. Psychological Review, 106, 20-61.

Moore, M. M., & Choi, J.-S. (199. Conditioned stimuli are occasion setters. In N. A. Schmajuk & P. C. Holland (Eds.), Occasion setting: Associative learning and conditioning in animals. Washington, DC: American Psychological Association.

Bouton, M. E., & Nelson, J. B. (199. Mechanisms of feature-positive and feature-negative discrimination learning in appetitive conditioning paradigm. In N. A. Schmajuk & P. C. Holland (Eds.), Occasion setting: Associative learning and conditioning in animals. Washington, DC: American Psychological Association.

Church, R. M. (1997). Quantitative models of animal learning and cognition. Journal of Experimental Psychology: Animal Behavior Processes, 23(4), 379-389.

Heyes, C., & Dickinson, A. (1990). The intentionality of animal action. Mind & Language, 5, 87-104


For anyone seriously interested in animal behavior, I would strongly recommend going to your local university, and taking a look through their volumes of Journal of Experimental Psychology: Animal Behavior Processes.
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[JuliusSqueezer]

I disagree naja....but kinda agree in many cases. It seems to vary species to species and also by age. Younger snakes seem to condition this way moreso than older more laid back snakes. You can suck what you want from text books, I am going by 30 years of personal experience. The Key question however still remains unanswered....what substrate if any is the snake living in....this will determine whether it is appropriate or not to feed inside the enclosure.
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[Dragon]

How would you feed a 25ft retic? Surely it would have to be fed in it's enclosure? I mean, trying to squeeze one into a feeding tote would surely lead to shinnanagins and feeding outside the cage would mean feeding in a room. A room that you may be in, with the snake. Not really a good situation, when it's conditioned to take food in this room.

Does anybody here have retics or a big burm? How do you go about it?
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[JuliusSqueezer]

I have an even better question....why would anyone want a 25 foot retic for a pet? Some animals are not meant for the household. I have a deep love for Dolphins and Whales....but I don't keep any in fish tanks. Other than zoos, I cannot justify a snake of that size in any private collection. It becomes a circus sideshow...attention getter thing not a pet. And once again....feeding outside the enclosure is not meant for YOUR safety but for that of snakes being kept on loose substrate. I have many snakes (mostly arboreal) that I feed in the cage because they dangle in the air and eat and never touch the substrate.
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	Arboreal Arboreal is a word meaning "related to or resembling trees". Its meaning comes from the Latin arbor, meaning tree.<br> In biology, an arboreal animal is one which inhabits or spends large amounts of time in trees or bushes.