Another big cat rescue

[gmcfarla]

http://www.exoticfelinerescuecenter.org/
this is the website of a rescue center for big cats that i have volunteered at for the past 2 years. it really is an amazing place. Joe Taft, who runs the place, has given his entire life to these cats. All he cares about is the well being of the cats. Ive even seen him chase a visitor off with a golf cart because the visitor was enticing a cat trying to get it to hiss. visit the website and if you live near indiana or happen to be visiting stop by and visit. Trust me you'll never forget it.

[Pork Chops N' Corn Bread]

It's so sad that people take these magnificent animals and put them in a cage. They are ment to run free and do as they want. I get angry when I hear about people selling tiger cubs or lion cubs. There are not enough rescues and we should fine the dumb (censored) that think they want one because they are "cool". They are wild and need to stay that way. Big Cats have wild instincts that will never go away. People need to accept that and get a house cat or a dog.

[SqueezeChamber]

sometimes its best bc people are out there tryin to kill them so its not always a bad thing but i understand how you feel

[Pork Chops N' Corn Bread]

They are happier and better off in the wild. Why put a 500 lbs cat in a cage and feed him old food from the local butcher? They need to hunt, need to run, need not be locked in cages

[Adrya]

It's especially a shame that there are more tigers in captivity than in the wild.

[Surinam kidd]

Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

It's so sad that people take these magnificent animals and put them in a cage. They are ment to run free and do as they want. I get angry when I hear about people selling tiger cubs or lion cubs. There are not enough rescues and we should fine the dumb sh!ts that think they want one because they are "cool". They are wild and need to stay that way. Big Cats have wild instincts that will never go away. People need to accept that and get a house cat or a dog.

as far as thats concerned snakes are wild and have instincts that will never go away. and belong in miles and miles of rain forrest and jungles.. yet we keep them in 4 or 8 ft cages.

[Surinam kidd]

Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

They are happier and better off in the wild. Why put a 500 lbs cat in a cage and feed him old food from the local butcher? They need to hunt, need to run, need not be locked in cages

as far as the hunting thing goes.. in the wild usally 9 out of 10 hunting attempts are unsuccesful. especially with tigers who are solitary animals.. and if that tiger dosent find itself a meal within 3 or 4 days it will be to weak to hunt and catch anything and would most likely die.. so death is always right around the corner for them.. so getting fed aint so bad,, its not having the space to have its own territory and run and frolic when they want is whats not mentally healthy for them..

[Alika]

Are we talking about big cats that people try to keep as pets, or big cats kept in captivity in general?

I think it's sick and wrong for people to try to keep them as pets, and that is the reason for such rescues. It's a little like getting a burm or a retic; cute when they're little, but, in reality, not many people are qualified nor prepared to handle them as adults.

Unfortunately, there isn't as much room for big cats in the wild as there used to be. As has already been said, they need large territories to hunt in, and those territories are fast disappearing. They are also expanding as prey items become scarcer. Well-run facilities that keep tigers do their part in educating people about wild tigers so that we can stop the progression of habitat loss and rebuild wild populations. Formal education programs are a must if we're going to save anything wild that we have, and, frankly, the best way to get through to people, to hit them right in the heart, is to see a tiger up close and personal.

I can go into classrooms and talk about eagles until I'm blue in the face, but how many more kids do you think pay attention when I actually have an eagle with me?

Finally, I wanted to comment that feeding any wild animal 'butcher leftovers' is deplorable. Any facility engaging in this practice needs to be shut down. But there are plenty of good facilities that provide the best life possible for their big cats. Would we feed butcher leftovers to our snakes? Heck no! We buy and feed them whole prey items, as do good facilities for their big cats.

The whole education and ambassador thing is highly controversial. I can accept that. So I challenge anyone who thinks that using live animals in education doesn't get through to people to take one of their large snakes into a classroom sometime and really educate about the plight of the species and it's natural habits - don't talk about pets at all - and see how many kids you get through to.

[Pork Chops N' Corn Bread]

Originally Posted by Surinam kidd

as far as thats concerned snakes are wild and have instincts that will never go away. and belong in miles and miles of rain forrest and jungles.. yet we keep them in 4 or 8 ft cages.

I would never buy a w/c animal and put him in a small cage, feed him little food and reach him to jump through a flaming ring money. I do not believe in animals making money for us. Most of the tigers are being kept in terible conditions at which they can not escape. In the wild a tiger could escape bad living conditions but cornered in a small cage, not a chance. Snakes have been bred in captivity for years and years. I would say about 70% of snakes in the trade now are c/b or at least c/h and about 70% are treated great by knowledgable owners that respect their animals life. I would say at least 50-70% of the large cates that private owners or zoos keep are kept in a cage that is 10' by 10' or maybe slightly larger and have no chance to hunt for their food. Plain and simple, tigers belong in the wild to run free. They have few preditors and need all the exersice they would naturally get

[JuliusSqueezer]

Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

I would never buy a w/c animal and put him in a small cage, feed him little food and reach him to jump through a flaming ring money. I do not believe in animals making money for us. Most of the tigers are being kept in terible conditions at which they can not escape. In the wild a tiger could escape bad living conditions but cornered in a small cage, not a chance. Snakes have been bred in captivity for years and years. I would say about 70% of snakes in the trade now are c/b or at least c/h and about 70% are treated great by knowledgable owners that respect their animals life. I would say at least 50-70% of the large cates that private owners or zoos keep are kept in a cage that is 10' by 10' or maybe slightly larger and have no chance to hunt for their food. Plain and simple, tigers belong in the wild to run free. They have few preditors and need all the exersice they would naturally get

75% of all statistics are totally fabricated.

Where are you pulling these figures from? 70% ae treated great by knowlegable owners? LOL...The internet community is a drop in a very large bucket from the whole real world of pet owners. MOST reptile owners don't research and properly keep their animals. MOST reptile owners don't buy from breeders. They buy from petstores and get all kinds of funny advice. I just got a PM from a greensnake owner who was told by a petstore employee that his greensnake eats fruit and lettuce. How many people do you know other than online that owns a giant burmese python? I see evidence of hundreds of babies being sold per year right around here...but where are the big ones? Dead? Likely. By now, if 70% of snake owners were responsible keepers, every household in Atlanta would have at least half a dozen giant burms.

[Alika]

Yeah, sorry, but your percentages are waaaaay too high. I wish I could offer more accurate ones, but I can't. I just know that reptiles, including snakes, are among the most difficult pets to keep (I believe they tie with birds) and that the vast majority of pet owners are lazy. They want something easy that they can throw food (most likely bought dry at a petstore) and water in with and have it be okay. Reptiles aren't that kind of pet. Good herpers are one in a million...

While circuses and side shows are still engaging in the deplorable act of jumping tigers through flaming hoops (I assume; I haven't been to a circus in years and years because I can't stand them), zoos are moving towards emphasis in education. Many training organizations have set forth standards of shows and training in which, if the audience isn't being educated by natural behaviors, it is unethical to train or keep the animal at all.

True, there are still lots and lots of zoos out there that are not only keeping their animals in deplorable conditions, they are practicing dangerous and bad animal management and training techniques that are aimed at entertaining and making money with "tricks" like jumping through hoops. But with the new emphasis on education and the pressure the public has been putting on zoos to conform to new standards, I don't doubt that in the future, the majority of exsisting zoos are going to going to have new, more natural exhibits and focus on education as a #1 priority.

Even so, there is still a quesiton of whether or not it's ethical to keep these kinds of predators. You said yourself that you feel like it is fine to keep captive bred animals. While there are still animals coming into zoos from the wild, the vast majority of animals in zoos were either wild caught years and years ago, or captive bred... ESPECIALLY tigers, which are endangered and for which there are strict laws against bringing them in. Most, if not all, of the animals that are still being wild caught by accredited zoos are smaller, species where the population in a particular area has exploded. Often times, the option is catch it and keep it, or let the government kill it.

Nowadays, zoos get their animals by breeding them and trading with other zoos and private collections.

It is good that you have such a strong opinion, but you should do more research before trying to present 'facts' to express that opinion.

You might still say that you believe keeping captive animals is wrong. That's fine. I'd imagine there are a lot of people who feel that way. Just keep in mind that snakes, no matter how you slice it, are wild animals that we chose to keep in captivity, and how are large mammals like tigers better than snakes?

Here is my opinion: In a situation where the care of the animal in question is as good as possible with plenty of room to move around and lots of natural stimulation and enrichment and where the animal is being used to educate the public about the state of the environment and other animals, or in which the animal is participating in a breeding program to help restore wild populations, captivity is justified.

[Pork Chops N' Corn Bread]

I guess what I mean are the good willed people. I know of people that are of the type mentioned that just throw ood and water in. I try to educate them that is not the way to treat an animal. Some will listen, some will not. Luckily now they are passing laws that will prohibit people from owning certain animals which will raise the success of captive animals today but not enough. I go to the local zoo, The Henry Doorly Zoo here in Omaha and see tigers kept in what I would concider minimal if that for such a miraculous animal. I just through those numbers together from my own experience all though far from correct, just a simple estimate & not expected to be correct. Check out these links

http://www.cathouse-fcc.org/rescue.html

http://www.bigcatrescue.org/tiger.htm

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...er_africa.html

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/ava...ted/Thesis.pdf

[Alika]

I think we can all agree that tigers don't need to be kept as pets, and there is more than one facility that should be shut down or made to update their tiger keeping. It is unfortunate that the only experience you've had with tigers in captivity is negative. Trust me, there are good places out there, too... just as there are good and bad snake keepers. I've been to zoos where tigers have large, open habitats and plenty of room to run and climb and even to swim. You're still young. Don't base your opinion on the practices of one zoo and a couple of stupid pet owners.

[Pork Chops N' Corn Bread]

Originally Posted by Alika

Here is my opinion: In a situation where the care of the animal in question is as good as possible with plenty of room to move around and lots of natural stimulation and enrichment and where the animal is being used to educate the public about the state of the environment and other animals, or in which the animal is participating in a breeding program to help restore wild populations, captivity is justified.

I have NO problem with captives for education its when people try to use them to make money that upsets me. I have donated small amounts of money to raptor rehabs in Nebraska and others such. I gave a donation to the nebraska herp society to help with the tracking and research of the Massasauga rattle snake. I actually wish more people would teach conservation and about wild animals to the puplic to hopefully keep them from getting themselves into something that many people have already...Getting an animal that they can not care for.

[Pork Chops N' Corn Bread]

Originally Posted by Alika

I think we can all agree that tigers don't need to be kept as pets, and there is more than one facility that should be shut down or made to update their tiger keeping. It is unfortunate that the only experience you've had with tigers in captivity is negative. Trust me, there are good places out there, too... just as there are good and bad snake keepers. I've been to zoos where tigers have large, open habitats and plenty of room to run and climb and even to swim. You're still young. Don't base your opinion on the practices of one zoo and a couple of stupid pet owners.

I guess that is 100% true. We have 1 nice outdoor setup at the zoo that they built when 1 of the tigers had cubs where they have a "river" and lots of nice places to lay out, its just unfortunate for the animals that there are a large number of people that keep them in horrible conditions.

[Alika]

Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

I have NO problem with captives for education its when people try to use them to make money that upsets me.

I absolutely agree

[Pork Chops N' Corn Bread]

I shouldn't have gotten into this. Did you look at the links? They really make you think about how bad tigers have it both in captivity and in the wild

[Alika]

Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

I shouldn't have gotten into this.

What do you mean?

I saw the links. It's sad for the tigers, but they aren't the only species in this situation. If it's exotic, there's a rescue out there for it. Have you heard of bengal cats? There are whole facilities out there devoted to giving sanctuary to bengals that have found themselves abused, neglected and/or homeless. What about coatis? Same thing. All devoted to animals that have been captive that nobody wants anymore... zoos who need to surplus, people who realize they can't keep them as pets, private collectors who had their animals taken away from them... lots of horrible stories.

But then, that's why education is important. It's almost a catch 22... but not quite. There are people out there working on solutions. It is good that you are aware of the problems, but don't let yourself get to be too jaded about all the bad things out there. It is the good things, and the good people, that we have to look towards, keep in mind, and support.

[Pork Chops N' Corn Bread]

Originally Posted by Alika

What do you mean?
I saw the links. It's sad for the tigers, but they aren't the only species in this situation. If it's exotic, there's a rescue out there for it. Have you heard of bengal cats? There are whole facilities out there devoted to giving sanctuary to bengals that have found themselves abused, neglected and/or homeless. What about coatis? Same thing. All devoted to animals that have been captive that nobody wants anymore... zoos who need to surplus, people who realize they can't keep them as pets, private collectors who had their animals taken away from them... lots of horrible stories.
But then, that's why education is important. It's almost a catch 22... but not quite. There are people out there working on solutions. It is good that you are aware of the problems, but don't let yourself get to be too jaded about all the bad things out there. It is the good things, and the good people, that we have to look towards, keep in mind, and support.

This comment may let me sleep tonight knowing that I have one less person hating me and against everything I say. Thank you, Truely. P.M. me later if you want to talk some more.