dog breeding question...didnt know where else to go

[mdolan7653]

Ok well i have a shih-tzu shes a litle over 4 months old....shes been very active lately and theres like maybe dried up blood near her vagina and she kind stiffens up when you pet her back...does this means shes in her first heat>? isnt it too early? also IM going to breed her on her second ehat, when will that be if this is her first? and are there any more ways to tell shes in heat and when to put a male shih-tzu with her??

sorry to be off topic just thought someone could help
thanks alot
Mike

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[natas]

lol the filter thought you were cussing. Just don't mix that dog with a bull dog ok

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[fire_kat]

When you say she "stiffens" up when you pet her back....What do you mean,like "keep doing that it feels good" or more of a "That hurts or I'm afraid it will hurt"?(there is a difference if you watch the body language)If you clean the area,is there more later?
She should not be in heat at 4 months old,in my opinion and experience.Has she fallen off the bed or down stairs etc?A bigger dog playing rough?How are her eating habbits?Stool and urine?Normal?When was she last checked by a vet?

[Adrya]

lmao...

I'm sure you want to breed her for many reasons... but...

I personally wouldn't.... there's just too many out there already that need homes. Just my opinion.

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[Jatango]

She could very well be in her first, and very early heat. However, you NEED to wait past her second heat because that will be about 6 months from now, and she'll still be a baby herself! Just like snakes, you need to wait to breed until she is mature enough to carry a litter. If you breed her too early, she could end up needing a C-section, possibly die, and less importantly, cost you thousands of dollars in the process. Especially small dogs like this, you should wait until she is at LEAST 2, as their litters can occasionally be too big regardless of their size.

Breeding, if done right, will cost you more than you'll make from the pups. Those parents need have a known family history and be tested for genetic diseases, or you could be dooming a litter of puppies to having things like renal dysplasia, portal systemic shunt, hip and eye problems, allergies, Von Willebrands disease, thyroid disorders, and inguinal hernias. None of these conditions are fun, I promise. Are both mom and dad excellent examples of the breed? Great temperaments, correct conformation? I know i'm a bit extreme about this, but incorrect temperaments and bad build can make dogs that end up in shelters for aggression, or arthritis because they aren't "put together" properly. Please PLEASE evaluate why you have decided to breed her. Getting her spayed now could prevent a lot of problems down the road. Things like pyometra (infected uterus) and ovarian or cervical cancer can kill a dog. Such a waste if the dog doesn't need to be bred. Do you have owners lined up for those pups that will treat them right? A lot of people who get small dogs end getting bored with them and drop them off at a shelter.

This is what a owner should be asking you. DO you do these things?

This is what a responsible breeder does. This is all from the shih tzu club of america.

If you want to know what can go wrong when breeding a dog, talk to Reptscue. She's a vet tech and i'm sure she has some stories of what can happen even with a professional breeder. If you decide to breed, be prepared to possibly lose her, and all of those puppies. It can and does happen.

I'm not trying to be mean, I promise. I've just seen this happen over and over and it can have some very very sad results. There is nothing like dead puppies to ruin your day.

[fire_kat]

Originally Posted by Adrya_Webb

lmao...
I'm sure you want to breed her for many reasons... but...
I personally wouldn't.... there's just too many out there already that need homes. Just my opinion.

I have to agree.For fear of sounding rude or anything I was going to keep quiet Dogs have 2 heat cycles a year normally(some skip,some have "false" heats etc.).Generally it is every 6 months give or take.IF your dog had a cycle at one year then another should follow at about 18 months old.etc.
Hope this helps.

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[mdolan7653]

OK well maybe shes not in heat...um I did step on her shes so small maybe thats why....but ill give it a few days see if i notice any swelling of the vagina or bleeding,,,Im going to wait til her second heat to breed her thou...Not to be mean and upset people but i am breeding her for money.....Shes a pedigree and I can easily find homes for the few puppies she has THe puppies will not have shots or anything im leaving that up to the new owners So i will not have to put out money. I am planniong to breed her every 2nd heat...Its natural and my opinion ok as well as many people experienced people with pedigree dogs agree....She herself has all her shots and everything and is very healthy...but of course I am waiting until shes older to breed her to anothwer pedigree....please dont anyone bash on me about breeding for money many people do iot and I see no problem with it ,....I even plan to breed my boa in the future ...only once just so I can and my boa can experience having babies..I think it would be amazing to know that my boa prouduced many babies healtrhy babies at that.....Of course that will nto be for money but just an experience to help further my knowledge with her.
thanks everyone for your help
Mike

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[Jatango]

I don't think you even SKIMMED my post.

...I guess you'll just do whatever you want anyway. Nice to know you're thinking of your dog's health and well-being.

Someone else can handle this. If I contribute any more sanity to this thread, I'm going to get banned.

If you're a lurker and reading this, please consider my post and do what is best for your dog. Your wallet, heart and conscience will thank you.

PS - Telling people not to bash you about something just shows that you know what you're doing is irresponsible and a bad idea.

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[reptilicus81]

I won't even skim through the obvious, but I have to add....dog breeding is not a good way to make money (unless you are a puppy mill and sell them in bulk ). You would make more money working part time at McDonald's for three months than you'll get for the very few puppies you'll produce with a Shih tzu. It costs money to get the puppies registered, and if you chose not to and you don't have the puppies vaccinated, no one will pay top dollar. Shih's have loads of problems with breeding, but still there are so many out there, they don't demand a high price unless they are from a quality breeder. BTW, you don't have to listen to us, you'll figure it out on your own once you try it.

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[zsanorah]

Aight...Im going to be a little...blunt here.
My best friend had a female dog, a mutt, beautiful dog yes but still. She got out about a week before they were going to take her to get spayed and ran away. About a month ago they go her back, unknown to them pregnant.
She had the puppies two days ago and I get this call from my friend "Jess, help" so of course I go over there. Turns out mommy, a first time mommy had gotten stressed and from what I was told and helped clean up, she canabilized a pup. I am QUITE sure you would not like to clean up a puppy that is in more the one peice. Im sorry if this offends someone but if you plan on breeding you need to know. you DO absolutely DO DO DO NEED TO PROVIDE SHOTS..do me a favor, do a quick google on Parvo, its not good at all they DO die most of the time, they DO take most of the litter with them, if not all. This is NOT something for an amuture im sorry but its not. Save yourself time effort and money, preserve the breed. SPAY HER NOW

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[Bluzmn59]

As an owner of a veterinary practice (along with my veterinarian wife), can I just say, "Please spay her." There are way too many unwanted pets now.

And, if I read your posts right, she is experiencing back pain and showing signs of bloody discharge after you stepped on her?????? And the reason you have not taken her to the vet is???????

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[Adrya]

Dude, if you stepped on her, TAKE HER TO THE VET.

NO excuses.

And if you can't afford to take her to the vet, then you shouldn't have her. She's probably got some serious internal damage, obviously something may be broken if she's bleeding.

Don't think that she'll just be fine in a few days and expect her to recover with no problems.

Do not let her suffer.

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[Reptscue]

Dogs can get fractures and internal injuries from being stepped on. If you are seeing blood around her vulva she has internal injuries!!!!!
For one.... You talk to any reputable dog breeder and they will tell you that you breed to better the breed. Not to turn you "beloved pet" into a brood mare. I even had to correct you on the spelling of the type of breed you have.
It seems to me that you have not researched this. You say that you won't put money into the pups... but what happens when your very young mother needs an emergency c-section at 3 in the morning?? Here at the EVC, for just one puppy, it is a $1500 charge.
Second, if do not get these dogs vetted before you sell them it will fall back on you. Shih-tzus have TONS of genetic problems... knee problems, congenital renal falure, soft pallet issues, pinched noses, liver shunts, allergies, do I need to go on? And if you do not find these things after they are born and you charge someone for that pup... expect a lawsuit!
And FYI... no reputable breeder would breed their female before she is 2 years old.

[Allysen]

Um... You "Didn't Know Where Else To Turn" for this question? You mean you don't have a vet?

If you haven't even taken her to the vet after STEPPING on her and noticing bloody discharge, you have absolutely no business whatsoever breeding the poor thing.

Shih Tzu Adopt, Rescue

^ Just look at all of the shihtzu's that are homeless in need of adoption. They can't even list them all on one page. I bet almost every single one of those dogs was at one point paid for by people who REALLY thought they wanted a puppy. Now they're stuck waiting for another home to get used to, and these are the lucky ones that aren't stuck at the pound, or were euthanized because they were "too old" or nobody wanted them, or worse yet, they had a behavioral problem because whoever bought them didn't want to take the time to give them a loving, stable home.

Can you really live with yourself knowing that you could be PERSONALLY responsible for purposely producing a poor defenseless animal that could end up with a life like that? Especially when there are already so many others that are suffering and in need out there?

The only reason one should breed is to BETTER the breed, and because one's passionate about it. This means researching and investing countless hours and money into good, PERFECT breeding stock, regular vet check-ups, and providing the best possible start to life for the puppies that you intend to produce. This means shots, regular ultrasounds and vet visits for mom if needed, the best diets, and thoroughly screened potential homes.

Breeders know that they don't make REAL money off of breeding dogs, they make up the money they put into it, and maybe pocket a little bit more to invest back into their dogs. They usually don't breed every other heat, and they CERTAINLY don't start on the second heat the dog ever has. They wait until the dog is healthy and mature enough to handle it. And if that dog is NEVER healthy enough for it, THEY DON'T RISK IT. If you go to a responsible breeder's webpage, most if not all of them will have adults available for pet-only adoption because they didn't pan out to be able to breed properly, or ended up with a problem they didn't foresee. They don't just shrug and breed them anyway.

What if you've damaged the dog by stepping on it? What if she now has something wrong with her that could potentially make breeding her DEADLY?

Most importantly, why haven't you taken her to the vet?

[fire_kat]

edit**I was unsure if my post was acceptable...when in doubt...erase
Have a great evening all

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[zsanorah]

Please, please tell us that you have gotten your poor pup to the vet by now.
Look we're not trying to be mean. We're trying to help the best way we can, by giving good honest advice and for some of us, what experience has taught. Some of those are hard lessons to learn and we'd rather not see others learn that way if they can learn from us.
Take the poor girl to a vet and while you're there set up an appointment to get her spayed.

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[Jem_Scout]

I agree with everyone but the original poster. GET THIS DOG TO A VET!
I would say more but I'll be banned...

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[Stargazer]

I grew up in a family who bred dogs for money. My parents started with a few poodles, but eventually bred dozens of breeds. The dogs lived in cages their entire lives and did not have much quality of life except when I took them out of their cages to love on them. It was extremely heartbreaking. Many people breed dogs and cats (and all other forms of animals too) for money. After watching what my parents put the animals through for a few dollars, I would never advocate it. But if you are going to do it, at least raise them humanely, underfoot, with lots of attention. BTW, even though my parents bred hundreds of dogs, they were always poor. I wouldn't count on it as a source of income. You also have a responsibility for the animals that get adopted and what kinds of homes they go into, as well as the older dog that can no longer bear litters. Whatever you do, please put your animals' well being first!!!!!

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[fire_kat]

Any word on how the puppy is doing??Did she see a vet?

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[Adrya]

Did you take her to a vet yet??? Heeeeeellllloooooooooo.........

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