Unnecessery Hundleeng ooff Repteeles: Guud oor Bed? Debete-a F1.

[ViperLover]

Thees is ferseeun oone-a ooff zee Debete-a: "Unesecery Hundleeng ooff Repteeles: Guud oor Bed?" Thees threed is nut intended tu insoolt, muck oor degrede-a oozeer members fur zeeur feeoos, und feeoopueents, Bork Bork Bork! Pleese-a keep it cleun, und remember, yuoor oopeeneeun, is joost thet, un "oopeeneeun".

In thees threed, ve-a veell cuncentrete-a oon deescoosseeng zee fullooeeng qooesteeuns:

1) Cun unesecery hundleeng ooff repteeles coose-a stress?
2) Vhet reesuns vuoold zeere-a be-a in unesecery hundleeng ooff repteeles?
3) Shuoold zee unesecery hundleeng ooff repteeles be-a incuooreged?
4) Cuoold unnesecery hundleeng ooff repteeles coose-a heelt prublems?
5) Vhet impect vuoold zee cunstunt fereeents in unsooeeteble-a temperetoores und hoomeedeety hefe-a oon repteeles thet ere-a hundled unesecereely, oon a regooler besees?
6) Cuoold thees poot zee hundler et reesk, und oozeers frum streeens ooff bectereeoom, invheech sume-a repteeles cerry? Fur ixemple-a: Selmunella, und Iculee.

Remember, pleese-a keep thees debete-a cleun, und eppruecheble-a, und pleese-a du nut deesregerd zee oopeeneeuns ooff oozeers.


Hefe-a foon shereeng yuoor knooledge-a und ixpereeence-a.

[Sakara]

the only risks I see are getting bit and possibly salmonella. but I'm sure you can salmonella easier from uncooked foods. I do know you aren't "suppose" to handle snake poo while pregnant due to the risk of salmonella.

but in my personal experince, I handle snakes daily clean and messy and cleaning them and their cages an I have never had an issue. health wise.

I don't see handling as unnessicary O.o and I'm not quite sure what unnessicary handling would be considered. if my snakes don't wanna be held one day they will let me know by moving away from me or trying to bite, etc. usually mine are calm and don't fight being picked or handled and seem to enjoy exploring.

I don't take my snakes out in temps that they should not be in so there is no issue there either...

[Rachel SS]

Yes, UNNECESSARY handling of reptiles can cause stress and is a waste of time. Reptiles don't need to be handled. It is for our own amusement.

AGAIN, it is UNNECESSARY.

[Sakara]

I understand what you are getting at Rachel, but if it's unnessicary to handle them then why keep them at all? to have a pretty, mean display animal?

[Rachel SS]

Originally Posted by Sakara

I understand what you are getting at Rachel, but if it's unnessicary to handle them then why keep them at all? to have a pretty, mean display animal?

Handling snakes will not make them more or less aggressive. They either will allow you to handle them without any problems or they won't.

Mine are all display animals. I never, ever handle mine unless I am cleaning, showing them to someone who comes over, or checking for parasites.

There are some snakes I can pick up and still have never been bitten. There are snakes of mine I can pick up every single time and get bit. It won't make any difference whether I force handling on them or not.

[Stigma]

I handle my snake quite a bit. She doesnt seam to mind at all.

I do not handle after feeding for 2 days or during shed. Other than that she is out almost every day.


Isnt it good to handle them at least SOME times just so that they get some form of exercise? Or am I wrong?

[Stigma]

Originally Posted by Rachel SS

Handling snakes will not make them more or less aggressive. They either will allow you to handle them without any problems or they won't.
Mine are all display animals. I never, ever handle mine unless I am cleaning, showing them to someone who comes over, or checking for parasites.
There are some snakes I can pick up and still have never been bitten. There are snakes of mine I can pick up every single time and get bit. It won't make any difference whether I force handling on them or not.

Wait, what?

My buddy has a Burm that was NASTY when he first got it. Now it is very easy to handle and interact with. I always thought this was due to him handling the snake more and getting it more comfortable with being held. Am I wrong on this too?

Im learnin a lot here today.

[Rachel SS]

Originally Posted by Stigma

Wait, what?
My buddy has a Burm that was NASTY when he first got it. Now it is very easy to handle and interact with. I always thought this was due to him handling the snake more and getting it more comfortable with being held. Am I wrong on this too?
Im learnin a lot here today.

The snake probably needed time to adjust and when they get bigger they USUALLY calm down. Many people just don't give snakes enough time to adjust - I usually wait about 6 weeks before I'll pull a snake out and handle it, but people think a week is okay (and I always disagree)

It's not that I'm saying you're wrong - snakes just don't get any sense of enjoyment from being handled. It just stresses them out. It's not to say you can't or shouldn't handle any snake, it's just daily handling adds WAY too much stress. I can understand once or twice a week, but daily? No no no.

[Stigma]

I never knew that. I guess I will have to cut back on the handling.

[Stargazer]

"Unnecessary" for whom? Us or the snakes? When we keep a wild animal in captivity, we enter into a type of agreement with that animal that we will give it the best life we could possibly give it, and try as best as we can to approximate its conditions in the wild. For a snake, this includes handling. It makes them easier to manage for feedings, cage cleanings, and vet visits, which ultimately benefits them.

Part of the agreement they make with us is that they tolerate our "cuddling" in exchange for good care.

Is it necessary in general for a snake to be kept in captivity and all that that entails? Absolutely not. We do this for our benefit. But that's a whole other debate, for which we already have a thread.

[toker]

Keep it on topic folks, this is a debate thread, as such, personal attacks to any given person will be removed and administrative action can and will be taken against offenders.

BTW, I fixed the spelling of the topic, so can we move on now?

Thanks.

[Rachel SS]

Originally Posted by Stargazer

"Unnecessary" for whom? Us or the snakes? When we keep a wild animal in captivity, we enter into a type of agreement with that animal that we will give it the best life we could possibly give it, and try as best as we can to approximate its conditions in the wild. For a snake, this includes handling. It makes them easier to manage for feedings, cage cleanings, and vet visits, which ultimately benefits them.
Part of the agreement they make with us is that they tolerate our "cuddling" in exchange for good care.
Is it necessary in general for a snake to be kept in captivity and all that that entails? Absolutely not. We do this for our benefit. But that's a whole other debate, for which we already have a thread.

I understand what you're saying. I do. But sometimes there is no predicting a snake bite and there are some snakes that do not do well with frequent handling. There are some snakes that will destroy their enclosures when you attempt to hook and take them out, and after a while, will "deal" with being hooked and handled.

But I still hold to the fact that daily handling is 100% unnecessary and I don't believe that handling a snake will calm it down. I think some of it may be due to the snake growing larger and maybe seeing us humans as less a threat, and some just give up the fight.

[ViperLover]

Originally Posted by Rachel SS

I understund vhet yuoo're-a seyeeng. I du. Boot sumeteemes zeere-a is nu predeecteeng a sneke-a beete-a und zeere-a ere-a sume-a snekes thet du nut du vell veet freqooent hundleeng, Bork Bork Bork! Zeere-a ere-a sume-a snekes thet veell destruy zeeur inclusoores vhee yuoo ettempt tu huuk und teke-a zeem oooot, und effter a vheele-a, veell "deel" veet beeeng huuked und hundled.
Boot I steell huld tu zee fect thet deeely hundleeng is 100% unnecessery und I dun't beleeefe-a thet hundleeng a sneke-a veell celm it doon. I theenk sume-a ooff it mey be-a dooe-a tu zee sneke-a grooeeng lerger und meybe-a seeeeng us hoomuns es less a threet, und sume-a joost geefe-a up zee feeght.

I du egree-a veet yuoo.

I theenk it is unnesecery, und it cuoold pusseebly stress zeem oooot, es elreedy seeed. - Zee qooesteeun zee regooler hundlers need tu esk tu zeeurselfes, is: "Vuoold I injuy beeeng peecked up ifery dey, vhee I vunt tu be-a lefft elune-a?"

[Stargazer]

Originally Posted by Rachel SS

I understand what you're saying. I do. But sometimes there is no predicting a snake bite and there are some snakes that do not do well with frequent handling. There are some snakes that will destroy their enclosures when you attempt to hook and take them out, and after a while, will "deal" with being hooked and handled.
But I still hold to the fact that daily handling is 100% unnecessary and I don't believe that handling a snake will calm it down. I think some of it may be due to the snake growing larger and maybe seeing us humans as less a threat, and some just give up the fight.

I defer to your superior wisdom on this, Rachel. I was taking "unnecessary" to mean any handling that is not pertaining to feeding, cleaning, or medical treatment. If you add "handling it to keep it calm", you are right--some snakes only get more agitated when handled. Again, we enter into a 'relationship' with this animal, and it is our responsibility to know what amount of handling is best for the snake. We can only know this by observing its behaviors. Some snakes appear to like it or at least tolerate it. Others seem to really dislike it.

[ViperLover]

Yes, unnesecery es in, joost fur zee seke-a ooff it, veethuoot reesun

[Rachel SS]

Originally Posted by Stargazer

I defer to your superior wisdom on this, Rachel. I was taking "unnecessary" to mean any handling that is not pertaining to feeding, cleaning, or medical treatment. If you add "handling it to keep it calm", you are right--some snakes only get more agitated when handled. Again, we enter into a 'relationship' with this animal, and it is our responsibility to know what amount of handling is best for the snake. We can only know this by observing its behaviors. Some snakes appear to like it or at least tolerate it. Others seem to really dislike it.

Seems like we're on the same page.

[Stargazer]

There is always a reason. Most of us enjoy handling our snakes, and the snakes don't seem to mind. In fact, many seem to enjoy it and seek it out. Most people aren't too keen on holding snakes that are hissing and striking, unless they believe the snake will eventually calm down. But as Rachel pointed out, some snakes are just for looks and not for cuddling. I don't think you can separate out the selfish reasons for handling snakes from the benevolent ones. All relationships have an element of selfishness in them in my opinion.

[LdyDrgn]

Personally, it depends on the snake. Some tolerate it well, some don't at all. I have had snakes that seemed to prefer being handled. In particular, during an expo, an adult male Argentine boa that would come out of his tub to greet people. If people were not coming by often enough for him he would come across the table to me and my friend to be 'sociable'.

"Unnecessary" can be a very broad term, too. Who determines how much is too little, too much or just right?

[Rachel SS]

Originally Posted by Stargazer

There is always a reason. Most of us enjoy handling our snakes, and the snakes don't seem to mind. In fact, many seem to enjoy it and seek it out. Most people aren't too keen on holding snakes that are hissing and striking, unless they believe the snake will eventually calm down. But as Rachel pointed out, some snakes are just for looks and not for cuddling. I don't think you can separate out the selfish reasons for handling snakes from the benevolent ones. All relationships have an element of selfishness in them in my opinion.

Yep. I am not opposed to handling snakes. I just think sometimes people force their desire to hold some snakes... who very CLEARLY show signs of being stressed, and make the situation worse. I find it's more common with people who are new to snakes, which I guess isn't too surprising.

I enjoy holding some of my critters. But I know which ones are okay being passed around, and I know which I can't.

[Stargazer]

Originally Posted by Rachel SS

Yep. I am not opposed to handling snakes. I just think sometimes people force their desire to hold some snakes... who very CLEARLY show signs of being stressed, and make the situation worse. I find it's more common with people who are new to snakes, which I guess isn't too surprising.
I enjoy holding some of my critters. But I know which ones are okay being passed around, and I know which I can't.

This comes down to our sensitivity to the needs/feelings of another being. Some people are just more sensitive and tuned in than others, whether it be with their cat, snake, roommate, husband, or wife. This is a daunting challenge for a reptile owner, considering snakes are so unlike us, and it's hard to know what they want or feel. I think the times are very rare when my snakes actually want to come out and be held. The best I can get from them is that they don't mind. Is it bad for them to "not mind" but not like it either? I don't know how to answer that because this is the agreement I have with them, and it's the type of relationship we have. This is the life they have. I'm sure in their little snake hearts, they'd rather be living in the South America Rain forest. Instead they have me--the great Rocky Mountain cuddlemonger.