Nature vs nurture? V 1.0

[mpgt]

This is version 1 of the debate "Nature vs nurture?". This thread is not a place to come and insult, mock, degrade or put down members for their views. Engage the debate in the spirit in which it is meant to be debated.

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I guess the question here is do you think captive reptiles (or other animals) are more influenced by nature (instinct) or nurture (environment/handling)?

[CraigC]

I think that we have an ability to condition our charges to live with in the parameters we set up for them. Most of us that research a species to determine what is best for captive specimens, have based or set ups on the trial and error of past keepers. As long as the basic necessities of environmental conditions, food, water and shelter are met, we can be successful in our breeding programs. What else is the best indicator that we are meeting those goals than having successful breeding projects and healthy captives? Emotion has nothing to do with instinct and is only something attributed to mammals of higher order.

Craig

[mpgt]

If a snake acts very defensively when held, is it most likely because of the way it's held or housed, or because of an inherited disposition?

[Icicle]

Originally Posted by mpgt

If a snake acts very defensively when held, is it most likely because of the way it's held or housed, or because of an inherited disposition?

This is a good Question.
Who are we to determine why any animal does any thing. We are simply trying to Simulate Mother Nature, I also believe we are not providing the one thing that Mother Nature can.
In My Own Opion, we all try to keep temp's and humidity at a constance.
Where as Mother Nature they deal with the four seasons (Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter), When we Keep our reptiles we try to mantaine Summer conditions. If we try to Simulate all the seasons and their conditions reptiles may adopt better.
I hear most of you say 12 hours of light on and 12 hours off.
What would happen if we change one variable, what if we turned the lights on when the Earth's sun comes up, and turn off the light when the Sun goes down. Should we also provide other things which Mother Nature throws at us Like high wind, Heavy rain fall.
.
I also believe that snakes will get in a defensive mode by how we Smell or the Smell of surroundings area.

[mpgt]

Icicle,
Q: "Who are we to determine why any animal does any thing?"
A: We need to know why they do things if we expect to keep them successfully.

"We are simply trying to Simulate Mother Nature, I also believe we are not providing the one thing that Mother Nature can."
A: I'm not. I've seen the Central American rain forest first hand. We could never reproduce it.

"In My Own Opion, we all try to keep temp's and humidity at a constance.
Where as Mother Nature they deal with the four seasons (Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter), When we Keep our reptiles we try to mantaine Summer conditions. If we try to Simulate all the seasons and their conditions reptiles may adopt better."
A: Most of my snakes come from temperate rain forests where there are really only 2 seasons; the rainy season and the dry season. There's not a big temperature variance like we see here.

"I hear most of you say 12 hours of light on and 12 hours off.
What would happen if we change one variable, what if we turned the lights on when the Earth's sun comes up, and turn off the light when the Sun goes down."
A: I don't use lights at all. If I did, they would be for heat, not illumination.

"Should we also provide other things which Mother Nature throws at us Like high wind, Heavy rain fall."
A: No.

[faroutinmt]

I definitely believe that both play a huge role. For example, it would be a snake's instinctive nature to seek safety and security and therefore it would be in a fight or flight mode when dealing with a monstrous human picking it up. But, most often, with consistent reinforcement of safe and secure handling they may learn and accept the trusted safety of our intrusion. I think it would be our proper goal to seek to "nurture" their "nature" in in the right direction.

[mpgt]

Some wild snakes though, show no resistance to being held, and don't try to escape, while others of the same size and species are the opposite.