Feeding: In cage or out? Debate v. 1.0

[morti]

This is version 1 of the debate "Feeding: in cage or out?". What this thread is not is a place to come and insult, mock, degrade or put down members for their views. Engage the debate in the spirit in which it is meant to be debated.

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Now, have fun and educate the world of your views!!

[CraigC]

I keep true arboreals (ETBs). I feed in the cage. Well, in some cases it starts "outside" the cage. There is no issue for me with any type of "retained" aggression that could be associated with this practice. I am also of the opinion that removing them to a different "feeding" enclosure would be very stressful (for me in particular), even though I have removable perches. Also, I feed after dark and when they are in hunting mode (which is every night). I would be crazy to put a body part inside the cage to attempt removal. My body doesn't contain that much blood.

Craig

[Hartsock]

I have found it necessary to feed in the cages temporarily while I am building my rack systems. so far, it hasn't been a problem, not in the least. None of the snakes, from cornsakes to rtbs to a ball, none have shown aggression...as a matter of fact, the ball actually seems happy to have the lid taken off and waits for me to get him out now. I know when I take off the lid he is looking for food, but when my hand goes in instead of the hemos with a mouse, he happily obligeds and comes right out. Only one i have problems with cage aggression is my blood, but then it doesn't matter if she is in cage, on floor, in hand, atop the statue of liberty, she is grumpy (actually nasty, mean and hateful; but I love her too much to call her that outright!)

I have been bit getting out a boa to feed in bin because I was in a hurry and didn't wash my hands, which says to me they distinguish more by scent then just movement. Even the blood acts differently in the way she bites when it is my hand vs. prey. The only instance I have seen weird behavior is when the boa I mentioned above that bit me, when it was young and on papertowels due to mites. I fed it in the cage because I was in a hurry. It was a 20L (he was very young at the time) the mouse bleed alot and soaked into the paper towels. For quite awhile he stayed in "hunt mode", kept going back to that spot and searched and searched the cage. I waited till he settled down in the warm hide before I reached in to change the towels and once they were out, he was fine.

[telefrag]

I don't really handle my animals, so I feed in cage.
Have been doing it that way for a long time, and it has never caused any problems.
*yet*

[owen.richards]

with more then one snake in one cage...no, with just one, depending on substrate i dont see why not, i feed outside of the cage 90% of the time, but if i get a new snake i feed the first couple times in the cage to get em feeding good before i move to feeding in bins, everything has feeding bins, i even feed my geckos crickets in bins (worms in a dish in the cage) i used to be a strong believer that feeding outside of the cage will keep snakes from getting aggressive, but i dont feel so strong about that anymore, if a snake is hungry, it doesnt matter where it is, it will act hungry, i had a stretch during the summer where i couldnt get any rats for a couple weeks, lil miss piggy (Bindi) got hungry and turned evil, everytime i opened the cage she would get in strike position, and this was new cus she never is mean, she had also never been feed in her cage before, but she was sitting there striking, sure enough when i got ahold of a rat and gave it to her, all aggression stopped, i still feed in bins, because i like natural set-ups with eco earth bedding, and i still do believe that it helps keep them not as mean, like it makes sense, Bindi is completely perfect, but when i put her in a rubbermade bin, she turns evil, cus shes trained that that is where she gets food, so i imagine if i fed her in the cage she would adapt the same ideas

[stalk]

Originally Posted by owen.richards

with more then one snake in one cage...no, with just one, depending on substrate i dont see why not, i feed outside of the cage 90% of the time, but if i get a new snake i feed the first couple times in the cage to get em feeding good before i move to feeding in bins, everything has feeding bins, i even feed my geckos crickets in bins (worms in a dish in the cage) i used to be a strong believer that feeding outside of the cage will keep snakes from getting aggressive, but i dont feel so strong about that anymore, if a snake is hungry, it doesnt matter where it is, it will act hungry, i had a stretch during the summer where i couldnt get any rats for a couple weeks, lil miss piggy (Bindi) got hungry and turned evil, everytime i opened the cage she would get in strike position, and this was new cus she never is mean, she had also never been feed in her cage before, but she was sitting there striking, sure enough when i got ahold of a rat and gave it to her, all aggression stopped, i still feed in bins, because i like natural set-ups with eco earth bedding, and i still do believe that it helps keep them not as mean, like it makes sense, Bindi is completely perfect, but when i put her in a rubbermade bin, she turns evil, cus shes trained that that is where she gets food, so i imagine if i fed her in the cage she would adapt the same ideas

This is why I don't feed out of the cage. Your snake has now been conditioned to give a feeding response whenever placed in the tub. It knows 100% of the time it gets put in the tub, it gets fed. So you have to be wary of feeding response biting and constriction whenever you go near the tub.

As opposed to if you open the cage 100 times in one week (cleaning, replacing water, handling, etc) and feed it only one of those times, it won't associate 1/100th of the time = 100% of the time the cage opens, it gets fed.

In the beginning, I fed my snakes outside of their enclosure. As soon as I put them in the tub I had to dodge bites, and the only way I could get them back in their cage is picking up the container and dumping them back in the cage.

Ever since I started feeding in the cage, I have not had to worry about any feeding response bites. Defensive bites, sure, but defensive bites will happen whether you feed inside or outside the cage.

[Stargazer]

I have done it both ways and now feed in the cage. In my experience, I have observed no difference in aggression from feeding in the cage. I handle my boas a lot also, so they are not expecting a rat every time I reach my hand in. I found it more dangerous to feed outside the cage and then risk getting bit putting them back in (which happened a few times). This is just purely from my personal experience. Warning: If you feed in the cage, you should feed on newspaper or a place, etc. so they don't ingest substrate.

[CraigC]

Originally Posted by Stargazer

I have done it both ways and now feed in the cage. In my experience, I have observed no difference in aggression from feeding in the cage. I handle my boas a lot also, so they are not expecting a rat every time I reach my hand in. I found it more dangerous to feed outside the cage and then risk getting bit putting them back in (which happened a few times). This is just purely from my personal experience. Warning: If you feed in the cage, you should feed on newspaper or a place, etc. so they don't ingest substrate.

Mine have manners and would never consider eating off the ground! The nerve! j/k

Craig

[Stargazer]

Oops, meant to say "plate" and not "place". My boas eat off plates! Haven't yet taught them how to use a fork and knife. Obviously, my snakes did not go to Ann Charm Snake School of Grace as yours did, Craig. lol

[toker]

I still feed my BRB out of cage, pretty much it gives me a chance to look her over, take stats and what not.

However, my other critters, its all in cage. If anyone can tell me they are able to take out a 9ft+ snake and put it in a tub for feeding, they are by far a better man than me

As soon as the rats and rabbits hit the sink, its as if the snake radar goes off and eveyone comes out for a look-see. kinda funny really, but they know, and they watch ya.

In cage for the most part here, but on newspaper.

[Smits]

Cage, unless I notice that there needs to be some spot cleaning the day I feed, then I take them out to feed while I clean up.

[CraigC]

Originally Posted by Stargazer

Oops, meant to say "plate" and not "place". My boas eat off plates! Haven't yet taught them how to use a fork and knife. Obviously, my snakes did not go to Ann Charm Snake School of Grace as yours did, Craig. lol

Mine come ready equiped with "built in" forks that have extra long tines! No need for charm school.

Craig

[Stargazer]

What a coincidence. Mine have built in razor sharp knives--hundreds of them!

[xbigredtankx]

I always feed outside

stalk i do agree with your thory of tubs....although i use different tubes on a regualar basis, anything fromcardboard boxes to glass aquariums, my snakes (so far) have never been agressive. my two bp's used to let me remove the mouse when they were young flip it round so they knew to swallow it head first... they are used to movement and interaction while feeding. Even with distraction, they are done in minutes from start to finnish! they then allow me to grab them and place them back in the cage for the next couple of days...

[razeraze]

I always feed in the cage, unless I am luring a monitor out of the cage with food.

[BulletSponge62485]

I feed all of my snakes outside of the cage. The way I see it, if feeding in the cage makes you more at risk to get bit then feeding outside the cage helps prevent that. If feeding outside the cage has no effect at all either way then oh well. It doesn't seem to hurt feeding outside of the cage so I see no reason not to do it.

[razeraze]

I could not imagine a bin big enough to cram a 16 foot constrictor in, and safely feed. Or a bin big enough for a 5 foot blackthroat that does not stimulate his feeding response as soon as he sees the bin.

[Jane]

I generally feed inside the cage, but on a plate if the snake is on a messy substrate. However, a guy at Petco (I know you guys hate them) told me when my brother's Corn wouldn't eat, to try moving him. So I moved him to a broad, shallow Sterilite for feeding, covered with dark cloth and he ate the first time. I did it several more times, then moved him back. It appeared to be just what he needed for the moment. I handled him as little as possible on the return, cradling him in my hands, rather than grasping him.
On the flip side, none of the times I've been bit by our snakes were due to a feeding response when not feeding, but rather the poor choice I made of not using tongs.
Both ways can have their benefits, in my opinion.

[boaterr]

Originally Posted by BulletSponge62485

I feed all of my snakes outside of the cage. The way I see it, if feeding in the cage makes you more at risk to get bit then feeding outside the cage helps prevent that. If feeding outside the cage has no effect at all either way then oh well. It doesn't seem to hurt feeding outside of the cage so I see no reason not to do it.

I beg to differ. If I ever decided to feed my retics outside of their cage and attempted to put them back in I would get bit for sure. Are you feeding your Anaconda outside of his or her enclosure? Get a hook and hook train your Anaconda ( I honestly do not know how people keep them succesfully without hook training them). The first time I got bit by my Anaconda I swear her teeth where so deep in my arm that they felt like they where going to rip my skin apart, bites from Condas are no joke and will change the way their owner looks at his or her innocent little pet forever.

I can provide video evidence to support everything I said as soon as my Anaconda eats again or as soon as my retics are done shedding (all 3 of them are in shed).

[Brandon28]

In cage...way too much hassle to put them in a separate container and put them back, afterwards.

I'm removing Natasha from the cage because she is in there with Darwin. And she is a total nut when in feeding mode. I can't wait to get this new cage in for Darwin!