Exotic Vet Debate V1.0

[natas]

This is version 1 of the debate "Exotic Vet Debate". What this thread is not is a place to come and insult, mock, degrade or put down members for their views. Engage the debate in the spirit in which it is meant to be debated.

Since this is a rather broad subject here is a outline of possible things to debate:

*Pricing - Should vets charge more for exotic visits? Is this right or wrong?
*Quality - Is it better to treat a animal yourself if you have the experience rather than trying to find a vet that can do it?
*Should a reptile keeper assume the high cost when taking on a exotic animal?
* Other related discussion

DO NOT COME IN HERE AND BASH VETS. Most vets do a good job, and do everything they can to help a animal. Again this is not a place to start bashing all vets. If you think they overcharge debate that, but don't say things like: All vets are money hungry


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[amercnwmn]

*Ok my thoughts here are based ONLY on my experience with my vets*

First of all, it seems my vets only know the bare basics, and treat the most commonly kept animals, (RTBs, Burms, Ball Pythons, Green Iguanas, Beardies)

From what I have found, there are many keepers in the private sector with much more experience on reptile specific care, than my local vets. These keepers specialize in caring for all sorts of different reptiles, and they have up to the date information regarding husbandry, medications, treatments, and diseases/ailments in the different species.

Every species has its own specialized care, and the same husbandry that works for clearing up RI in an RTB does not work for a Blood Python.

That being said, if I had an emergency, I would see my vet FIRST to get my animal stabilized WHILE asking a few private keepers I know for their opinions.


As far as fees go, I have noticed a difference in what my vet charges for snake visits vs cat/dog visits. If some specialized equipment or lab work were needed, I would understand it.
Last time I went to the vet, they cut me quite a financial break, so that was a relief.

I think it depends, maybe most vets dont see the call for reptile specific vet care and don't bother to pursue it?

I will admit I've seen quite a few people who wouldn't consider taking their reptiles to the vet because for the price of the care, they can just get another one. That is wrong IMO.

It would be interesting to get a vet's point of view on here.

[toker]

Personally I find you get what you pay for.

In my area here, there really are only two vets that treat snakes. One, not so good, yet not very expensive. The other is a long ways away, charges more, but is a very good vet.

Do some people overcharge? sure, who doesn't? People are different, people have different situations, the situation of the person determines how much they either want to charge or have to charge.

The last thing I want is to see some type of state or fed regulations regarding the max cost of any specific treatment for any specific situation. That will only hurt more than help.

If you find someone is charging too much for you, go elsewhere, there is ALWAYS another, and yes, there are times when you will have to drive 2hrs out of your way. I know I do. But its worth it.

[toker]

Originally Posted by VoodooChile

I will admit I've seen quite a few people who wouldn't consider taking their reptiles to the vet because for the price of the care, they can just get another one. That is wrong IMO.

You bring up an interesting point, one I am sad to say I have seen first hand.

Let me start this off by saying this is subjective, what costs a lot to one, is not that bad to another, again falls back to a person and their situations.

I have a friend who keeps birds, one of her birds got sick, I told her about my vet and it would only cost $50 for the bird to be seen.

She looked at me and said, why pay $50 for a $30 bird?

The cost of one vet can be different to many people, often times vets charge what they charge either because they have to or they can.

[razeraze]

My experience is, exotics are a smaller market so to get a vet that only works on exotics (as we have) means they love the exotic animals enough to take a risk of less customers.

Therefore I do not mind in the least paying the extra money to someone who may not know more than me about my type of reptiles but can tell me what studies he has as well as what medicine has worked for similar animals. My vet is not a monitor keeper how ever iguanas and birds suffer many of the same complications as monitors so we can combine our knowledge and come to an agreement.

I believe it is also up to us keepers to question the vet and voice our own research, a good vet will welcome your second opinion as long as it is scientifically based.

[DaveA]

My experience...

I called my local vet's office and asked if they could look at my snakes, sex them and check one out and they said YES. I took 3 of mine in for a check up (one was not eating well) and to have them sexed.

The vet said she had no idea how to sex them (pulled out a manual) and neither did the other DVM. She looked at them for a while commenting "How pretty" and that was it. The $$Bill$$ was close to $100 to tell me how pretty my snakes were and to give a very very very small B12 shot!!!
:cuss2: If you don't know just tell me and don't charge me to touch my snakes.

Since then I have found a very experienced vet that handles reptiles. Shoud this cost more than any other animal? No, unless the animal is dangerous. If it were, then a procedure should be inplace with an added fee.

[razeraze]

My salvator was so dangerous the vet said "bring her in, if I can't work on her you won't have to pay me". It does not get any better than that. Our vet does not work on cats and dogs so i do not mind paying him more since he has less customers.

[mrcota]

The vast majority of veterinarians are trained in treating dogs, cats and other mammals. Those are of course the most common pets that are kept and livestock that is raised (cattle, pigs, horses). When a veterinarian is trained in exotics, it is usually a wide range of animals, but mostly birds. To find a veterinarian that is a reptile specialist or really knows their reptiles is a RARE find. For those that can not find a veterinarian that truly specialises in reptiles, it is the owner’s responsibility to know as much about what could possibly go wrong with their animal and like Tom said, help the veterinarian out, but don’t try telling them what to do unless you know.
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For those that plan on keeping a large collection of reptiles, the best thing you can do is educate yourself in reptile biology, medicine and physiology. The books are very expensive, but your animals depend on you and it is your responsibility to take care of them. After you have educated yourself, you will then be able to assist a veterinarian by suggesting the best course of action and medicines to be administered (*note: that is after your have thoroughly educated yourself- not after reading one book).
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Should the cost be higher for a veterinarian that specialises in reptiles? Yes, it should be, if they are truly specialised in that area; just think about your medical needs, a specialist is always more expensive than a general practice doctor. They have to know more detailed information and work in a more limited field- that costs money. In the situation given above, where the veterinarian did not have a clue, no, they should have been honest and said that they don’t know. That is not a reptile specialist.
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Treatment by the keeper should only be done by those that are extremely knowledgeable in reptile biology, physiology and medicine. This is also a legal issue, since effective drugs used for treatment are often prescription drugs. It is best for people of this level of knowledge and experience to go to the veterinarian and tell them what you need; I have found that veterinarians are most helpful and will give you what you need if they know you are taking the proper course of action.
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One thing that should be noted is that most veterinarians know very little about reptile husbandry. They can tell you what is wrong with your animal, recognise and treat the symptoms, but often can not tell you what is causing it, if it is husbandry related.
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Michael

[deadliestformula]

*Pricing - Should vets charge more for exotic visits? Is this right or wrong?

This depends. Is the exotic in question going to require more than one employee to handle/restrain/examine it? If a cat or dog comes in and needs a check up, a vet can do it reasonably by himself. But if a testy 18ft burmese python comes in it may take several employees to restrain it sufficiently for an exam. And more staff equals more money. But I also believe that this should hold true to any animal that requires extra hands (a nippy, agressive dog for example). And relying on the owner to help could easily be against the vetrinary insurance policy. It would be like a person going to the hospital and having their friend assist in the procedure. It doesn't matter if the friend has a degree or anything else, without being covered on the malpractice insurance, the person is a liability. And the same thing would probably apply to vetrinary malpractice. If you were injured by your OWN animal or happened to fall or something while WORKING on your own animal, the insurance wouldn't cover your accident. The rising costs of malpractice insurance for people doctors has shown a giant leap in relation to the number of folks sueing the insurance company. The doctors must pass that cost on to the patients in a hope to break even. I could reasonable assume the same would hold true for animal medicine

*Quality - Is it better to treat a animal yourself if you have the experience rather than trying to find a vet that can do it?

Common sense should be applied here. If you or your child has a cold, chances are you will self treat/medicate. And if it progresses into something more serious, you would see a doctor. Same should apply to reptiles/exotics. Mites can be taken care of at home. Stuck shed and minor RI as well. But just as you wouldn't operate on your child or spouse, you shouldn't operate on your animals. Now, the extent of YOUR own knowledge comes into play alot here. There are plenty of people who raise livestock for example that will do things to their animals that the average lay person would need a vet to do. Like innoculations, breech births, etc. And there are breeders/advanced hobbiests that can do things that I couldn't do (BW for instance). HOWEVER, a realistic attitude about the scope of your ability is necessary. I have personally stitched up a gash on a buddies leg. No sweat. But I wasn't worried about scarring like I was when my son cut his face for instance.

An exception to this is Emergency Medical Treatment. If for some reason an animal is dying and its IMPOSSIBLE to get professional help for the ailment, you would be obligated to do anything/everything you could WHILE waiting/traveling to care. What exactly this would be for a pet, I cannot think of off the top of my head, other than like if a dog got hit by a car and was bleeding severely or had visably broken bones, you should do whatever you can to stop/slow bleeding and splint the bones. STUFF TO SAVE A LIFE FITS IN HERE!

*Should a reptile keeper assume the high cost when taking on a exotic animal?

Hope for the best, be prepared for the worst. (within reason) Folks who have dogs (for instance) take into account the cost of rabies shots, parvo vaccinations, heartworm pills, spayed/neutered surgery, etc. So YES, reptile keepers should be prepared for vetrinary care within a reasonable amount. But my mom's dog (a 15 year old rat terrier) just went to the vet for his refusal to eat for a few days. No problem. She paid for it. And the myriad of tests afterwards to determine the reason. SHe seriously spent over $2000 to figure out what was wrong, and then to proceed with EXPLORATORY surgery that was risky at best to try to figure it out, after catscans, MRI's, blood workups, and everything the vet could throw at her (she loves her puppy). The dog never recovered from the surgery. It was all in vain. If it was me, I would have put the dog down when bloodwork and xrays couldn't determine a cause. (especially on a 15 yr old dog) Everyone has their dollar amount that they can afford to spend on an animal. Or that seems reasonable. Some people are willing to do more. That doesn't make them better or worse than others. I personally would Never have spent what Louise spent on Chance's recovery. But she did. (I am not knocking her for it). But everyone has limits, whether its related to how much to spend to fix a car vs. junking it for a new one, or what treatments and lifesaving acts they want for themselves or their loved ones (pets included)

*other related topics

I do think that with any service you recieve (from anyone) you have the ability to research the provider and select the most qualified person. You do it with people doctors. You wouldn't see a cardiologist for acne. So of course you wouldn't see a horse doctor for reptiles. You do it with auto repair shops (look for the most qualified person to complete the job) even for daycare/nanny jobs. Shopping around for the most qualified provider is a fact of life and should be a given for just about anything that really matters.

[project_evolution]

i dont mind spending a litle more on my herps when they go to the vet. Like DF said you treat minor stuff at home if you can, but if a vet has to work on a more complicated problem it should cost more. am i happy that a microchip in my retic cost 4-5 times what it would in a dog...no but i realize at the same time that a 15 ft. snake is harder to deal with.
do i think some vets gouge you?....absolutely...who doesnt. if you dont like it though theres usually someone else you can go to.
i personally have a vet for my farm animals, and one for my herps, as my herp doc is really good but hes not a put your hand up a cow booty sort of guy.

[torlax]

Spending money at a vet visit on your pets is okay, bu there are some vets that charge for you just even walking in the door. but The extra Charge for an Exotic pet to visit is just kinda stupid in my eyes, because if you bring in a normal Reptile non-exotic, one day, and they charge$100 for a check up(not actual price) the next day you bring in an exotic and they Charge lets say $200 for a checkup, i wouldn't want to go to them any more because unless the animal was Venomous or a Venomoid, then i would not understand it. And i don't think a Reptile Keeper should have to assume that there would be an extra/higher cost since they own an exotic.

[CraigC]

Originally Posted by torlax

Spending money at a vet visit on your pets is okay, bu there are some vets that charge for you just even walking in the door. but The extra Charge for an Exotic pet to visit is just kinda stupid in my eyes, because if you bring in a normal Reptile non-exotic, one day, and they charge$100 for a check up(not actual price) the next day you bring in an exotic and they Charge lets say $200 for a checkup, i wouldn't want to go to them any more because unless the animal was Venomous or a Venomoid, then i would not understand it. And i don't think a Reptile Keeper should have to assume that there would be an extra/higher cost since they own an exotic.

I think you have a misconception about the term "exotic". To us, as herpers exotics are non-native species. To most vets, anything outside the norm (cats, dogs etc.) are exotics, including native reptiles and birds.

A lot of money can be saved if you develop a relationship with your vet based on their understanding of your knowledge and abilities. As an example, tubing for hydration or giving IM or sub "Q" injections. If you have to take the animal in, then you are going to pay for those services. However, if your vet can trust you to give them, then obviously you will save money. The bottom line though, is that YOU have chosen to keep the animal and therefore YOU are responsible for all care. Simply put, if you are not financially responsible, you shouldn't keep animals.

Craig