Do Reptiles have feelings Debate v1.0

[RevMojo]

This is version 1 of the debate "Do Reptiles Have Feelings". What this thread is not is a place to come and insult, mock, degrade or put down members for their views. Engage the debate in the spirit in which it is meant to be debated.

In this thread we will talk about the following:

• Can reptiles have feelings, such as like, dislike, love, etc.?
• Other related social behaviors in reptiles
• The differing degrees to which some species may exhibit such behaviors, should they occur
• The human urge to associate such behaviors where they may or may not exist
• Other related discussion

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[VoodooChile]

What kind of reptiles are we talking about?

Based strictly on my own observations,

I believe snakes experience somewhat LESS emotion/feelings than lizards:

I don't think my Corn snake has any affection or trust for me. I think she tolerates me. She realizes I'm not going to eat her, although she goes on High Alert whenever I reach into her cage. Once out, I believe she thinks I'm a really warm tree branch that moves around. lol
I think she feels "secure" once she's out and realizes she's NOT on the menu.
I had a boa, however, that never shied away from me, and seemed to RELAX when being held and would often seem to go to sleep. Do I think he "loved me"? No, I think he was just more secure than my Corn snake.

Now iguanas, and other lizards are a completely different story in my observations:
My Iguana is still leery of me, and not sure WHAT I'm doing reaching in his cage. I know, based on my research, he may develop a sort of affection, and may even seek out human comfort or warmth (or avoid it completely) when he's out of his cage.
I've seen many lizards that appeared to be VERY affectionate, and others not so much. I think it depends on the bond between animal and keeper in some cases.

With snakes, I believe they have SOME emotion, but probably less than that of many lizards..I think they know "fear", "insecurity", "security", "contentment", "aggression", and to some extent, "trust". Pretty sure "anger" is in there, as well..LOL

Do I think they are COMPLETELY without feeling, no I don't.

[momakat]

What we observe and identify with could change with the species of the reptile in question. I have only my BP, Rex, to relate to - or compare.

When putting my cat into his carrier - he used to fight me and try to get out. When he wanted attention he demanded it from me.

Comparison? When putting Rex back into his home he sometimes tries to climb back up my arm. So . . . is he just not wanting to go back home or wanting more time with me? Hmmm . . .

A lady in the vet office asked me if I thought Rex loved me - as he was so patiently draped about my shoulders and flicking my cheek. I said it's hard to know - but that I did feel I was part of his comfort zone. An area where he felt safe and not threatened. Although I like to think that he loves me . . .

[RevMojo]

My beardie exhibits behaviors that could almost be described as happiness when he can see a bag of crickets in my hand. It's certainly excitement beyond the raised level of awareness associated with hunting prey. Does he like me? I doubt it. Love? Absolutely not.

Turtles? I don't know...I've leave that to someone else.

Snakes? I think snakes are too dumb for emotions. Simple is probably a better word. They don't need any sort of social structure in nature beyond warning off potential predators (and I'd call fear more of an instinct than an emotion), and never needed to develop emotions like other creatures with more complex social structures. Eat, sleep, repeat. Procreate as needed. No emotion needed. Sorry, but I don't think a snake is capable of love, or even like. The good news for those of you that keep getting bit...your snake doesn't hate you either.

[Bluzmn59]

I tend to agree that snakes do not have emotion. I will not speak of other reptiles. I believe a snake that is handled often will develop a comfort level with that person, but it is probably no more than the comfort they develop by being in their own cage vs. sitting in a Rubbermaid during cage cleaning. I know that my RTB that I had for his whole life will often try to get away from my wife or someone else handling him and stretch toward me. I do not attribute that to love or emotion, it is because I am the one that always handles him, feeds him, changes water, etc., and he is likely more comfortable with my presence.

[crush]

Snake i am not sure of. You take an Iguana and or a Tegu and I have to say I believe they do. Some close thier eyes and push there heads to your hand to be rubbed and close thier eyes. I believe they like it.

[TongueFlick]

Originally Posted by crush

Snake i am not sure of. You take an Iguana and or a Tegu and I have to say I believe they do. Some close thier eyes and push there heads to your hand to be rubbed and close thier eyes. I believe they like it.

I like to believe this also, not just because monitor lizards/tegus, (not sure about others) have 'like' they have 'annoyance' or 'dislike'. Many times Gryphon will come up to me for head-rubs, (LOL, just look at my avatar) but equally many times he will skitter away from me, and try to hide. "Abby, I want back in my cage." But that only enhances my view that lizards have feelings; sometimes it's in their nature to cuddle, other times they feel that being left alone is best for them.

[sarecho7280]

people don't consistently differentiate between a reaction to a stimulus and actual emotion though. and what exactly IS emotion. is relief emotional? is scratching an itch something you do out of instinct or emotional benefit?