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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007, 02:14 AM
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You maybe right Julius, but I really haven't looked into it as much as you. I have seen birth results from het x het breeding about 4 times and didn't notice any of them being smaller then the normals. Then again this was about 3-4 years ago, for all I know the gene pool maybe at its weakest now

Also, is this only in boas?
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007, 02:23 AM
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Albino is a disease regardless of species...but as I said before, the egg layers have a definate advantage of producing semihealthy (if you want to call them that) offspring since each egg develops at it's own rate not dependant of clutchmates developing at the same rate.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer View Post
Albino is a disease regardless of species...but as I said before, the egg layers have a definate advantage of producing semihealthy (if you want to call them that) offspring since each egg develops at it's own rate not dependant of clutchmates developing at the same rate.

never thought of that or even heard it mentioned. very interesting though.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007, 05:17 AM
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Could explain why albino corns, kings, burms etc are a dime a dozen now and albino boas are still somewhat a rarity. Ball pythons have small clutches so the dime a dozen doesn't apply to them yet.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer View Post
Could explain why albino corns, kings, burms etc are a dime a dozen now and albino boas are still somewhat a rarity. Ball pythons have small clutches so the dime a dozen doesn't apply to them yet.
I wasn't even going to post in this topic, but... Albino boas a rarity? There are TONS of albino boas. I see loads of big, healthy albino babies at every show I go to. Their prices are dropping to affordable, and the hets are almost cheap.

I think, and please understand this is just my opinion, that perhaps you are refusing to see them?
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2007, 03:15 PM
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Re: Should we breed albinos? V1.0

The Doberman Pinscher Club of America's take on Tyrosine +, - and partial dobes. Worth a read for reptile people too.

Original Source

In November 1976, a mutation occurred with the whelping of a cream colored Doberman.

Her sire, dam, and litter-mates were normal colored black and tans. She had pale blue eyes, pink nose, eye rims, pads and membranes. Where tan markings would be they were Albino.

She was bred to a dominant black male, producing 14 black and tan pups. A male and female were kept and all ran loose. Her son sired her next litter, which contained 2 Albino males. He was also bred to his sister and her litter contained 2 Albino *female dogs*. Later, these Albinos were bred together producing all Albinos.

These dogs have been highly inbred and have multiplied at an enormous rate, and unfortunately they are being bred into our top show lines.

While we can readily identify an Albino, we cannot detect the mutant gene which is carried by a great many of our normal colored dogs.

It has been proven that the Albino mutation is not related to our dilution genes (blue and fawn).

In 1982, the AKC approved the DPCA's amendment to the Doberman standard disqualifying "dogs not of an allowed color."

This prevented the Albino's from being shown in the conformation ring, but unfortunately does not stop the continued breeding of these mutant Dobermans. The AKC had refused DPCA's request to cancel any registration of Albino Dobermans.

The DPCA employed the services of several noted geneticists, vets, and color experts as well as purchasing 2 Albino female dogs for test breedings. They also conducted many scientific studies of hair, skin and eyes by professionals at leading universities.

The results after a five-year study conducted by the DPCA and its consultants, concluded these mutants were correctly termed, "albino or tyrosine positive, partial albino or tyrosine negative which suffer from hypo-melanocytic disease. It is important to note here that partial albinos are still albinos.

Albinism is a deleterious mutation which affects the whole body.

Why does the DPCA reject the Albino?


We know that these dogs are photophobic, (sensitive to sun light). They have vision problems resulting from abnormal development of the retina.

They are prone to skin cancer and skin lesions. Due to the lack of pigment, they are extremely susceptible to skin damage from the sun.

Poor temperament is a significant concern. Due to the intense inbreeding to obtain the mutation, the temperaments on a great many are totally unstable. These problems range from fear biting to outright vicious attacks. Shyness is prevalent. Most are not suitable for homes with small children. Yes, there are exceptions, but hardly enough to make them acceptable to most families.

In addition to the above problems concerning health and temperament, these dogs have a total lack of breed type.

There is dialog currently between the DPCA and the American Kennel Club to impose a breeding restriction on the Albinos. They would still be registered, but would have the same restrictions as an ILP registered dog. Owners would not be allowed to register any progeny of the Albinos.

While negotiations continue, the DPCA is utilizing a tracking system, call The "Z" List. This tracking system identifies any dogs that may carry this mutant gene. It enables ethical breeders to avoid breeding to animals with the defect.

While we can understand the attachment one can have for animals of all colors, sizes, shapes and pedigreed or not, we must realize that the Doberman Pinscher was a breed created for a purpose.

A standard of excellence was drawn up describing what the ideal Doberman should look like, how it should act, and what colors it should be. Albino cannot be classified as a color. It is just the opposite. It is the lack of color.

No recognized standard would call for a dog that is Albinoid. It is a genetic defect in all creatures.


The DPCA Code of Ethics is available upon request.

This brochure is updated from the original text written by:
Mrs. Judy Doniere
Second Edition, 2001

DPCA Albino Committee Chair: Cheryl Gates; E-mail: CHMurrey@aol.com

Last edited by redtail1 : 03-28-2007 at 04:09 AM. Reason: profanity
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2007, 05:05 PM
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Re: Should we breed albinos? V1.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by morti View Post
I wasn't even going to post in this topic, but... Albino boas a rarity? There are TONS of albino boas. I see loads of big, healthy albino babies at every show I go to. Their prices are dropping to affordable, and the hets are almost cheap.

I think, and please understand this is just my opinion, that perhaps you are refusing to see them?

I said "MORE" a rarity. Albino corns, kings, burms etc are a dime a dozen. Especially corns to the point that if you want a normal het for squat, you pretty much have to go herping. That isn't the case with the boas despite the large litters...yet. I've personally never seen a "healthy" albino anything and don't believe they exist. I don't see how anything can be considered "healthy" when it has a disease. Even if you think it's not so bad, you certainly can't claim that they are better off or even AS healthy as a wild type normal...or I guess you can claim anything but can you back it up with medical science? Because I certainly can back up the fact that it's a disease. "as healthy as a diseased albino can possibly be"? Yeah, I've seen those too but I still feel really bad for them.
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