Corn snakes.

Voodoo · #1 (**permalink**) 10-21-2002, 03:07 AM

So, I went to the petstore where I'm trying to get a job, and I saw the most darling little Snow Corn snake. I didn't buy it, but now I'm in research mode, hehe. he's what I've learned so far:

Mainly nocturnal - active at dusk and early evening.
4'-5'. Males longer. Live to be 15-20y/o.
From South & Central US.
20G is the *bare* minimum for an adult. 30-40 gal better.
Escape artists of the snake world - Extremely good at getting out, will even push open a cage.
Semi-arboreal
Like to burrow
Apx. same temps as BPs
50-60% humidity
Babies eat pinky mice
Adults eat aduly mice or weanling rats

Is that all right? And I have a few more questions.

1) How big will it get in the first year?
2) Should I wait until it's big enough for adult mice to convert to weanling rats (like I do for my BPs), or use an appropriate-sized rat after 1 or 2 years?
3) Who's a good breeder, since I don't really want to buy from the petstore (even tho the BP I got IS really healthy and eating well).
3) What is a fair price to pay? The Snow and Albino corns at the petstore are either $60 or $70.
4) What kind of badness should I keep an eye on? Or is their only drawback the escape artist thing?

Thanks a bunch!
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froggystyle34 · #2 (**permalink**) 10-21-2002, 03:43 AM

answers to your questions...

1.)about 2 feet maybe if you feed them right
2.)most will do well on a diet of 2 ro 3 jumbo adult MICE, but if takes a rat it will be an adult like 4 years old or so.
3.)serpenco south mountain reptiles just to name a few, great animals at great prices.
4.) 60 or 70 dollars is crazy for a hatchling, but fair for a yearling or subadult. i get hatchlings for 30 bucks. depends on the breeder really though
5.)they are ruthless feeders so watch for over feeding. extremely great escape artists. they are persitent too. dont put a little one in a critter cage they will get out, it i better to put them in a tank with a screen top lid with side latches or something like that, the smallest gap is there way out.
they are very quick too, not like a BP when you hold them they move so watch out for that. they live well in a 20 long tank but i prefer a 55 gallon for an adult because they need room to roam. they are not only out at dawn and dusk mine are out all the time. humidity should be around 50 percent unless they are shedding.
make sure they can soak in there water bowl as well. i reccomend a uth and a heat lamp, but a uth will be enough. most of all be patient they aer not really quick growers like red tails and BPs but they can get big, i have had one that was 5'8 inches when she died but she was also power fed for breeding purposes before i got her. well good luck and i hope this helped

froggy

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Voodoo · #3 (**permalink**) 10-21-2002, 04:00 AM

Yes, much help. But now I have a new question.

I've read some caresheets that say temps about the same as BPs. The others I've read say 74-82, and that they can't tolerate 90 for very long. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]

Which is it? I don't wanna fry the corn, but I don't want to freeze it, either.
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ars8846 · #4 (**permalink**) 10-21-2002, 04:05 AM

Does it have red eyes?
I have worked with many corn snakes and I have found that they are indeed great escape artists, but generally fairly tame. The ones with red eyes, you have to be careful with because most of them cannot see very well, and they often associate movement with being fed and can be strikey, but are fine once you get ahold of them.
I hope that this is helpful.
Amber
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froggystyle34 · #5 (**permalink**) 10-21-2002, 06:39 AM

i maintain a 90 degree basking spot, but i also have a shelf in my corn snakes enclosure. the hot side i keep between 84-87 degrees and the cool sid estays at 78-81 degrees on the cool side. but the 90 degree spot is always there(uth) if she doesnt want to be there she goes on the shelf. she knows where shes going. but then again i have her in a big tank too so it is easier to make temp gradients. a lot of people say put babies in small enclosures, but i have had mine in large one since she was a yearling and she is fine. well again good luck and if you have anymore questions dont hesitate to ask.

froggy
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Voodoo · #6 (**permalink**) 10-21-2002, 07:02 AM

So, go with the higher temp? Cool, thanks!
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froggystyle34 · #7 (**permalink**) 10-21-2002, 04:17 PM

no keep a spot on a branch or something at 90 degrees. keep the warm side 86-88 degrees and the cool side 80-82 degrees
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#8 (**permalink**) 10-21-2002, 04:58 PM

Sorry, but colubrids do not tolerate temps above 90 at all. it will kill them. Yeah, yeah, the temps get that hot in their native ranges, but you will never see a north american snake when it's 90 out, they're all hidden away somewhere out of the heat.

I got my corn from Hisba and he was a year and a 1/2 old when I got him. I feed him a large adult mouse once a week and his DTH is 80, maybe 82 and the cool side usually sticks right between 72-74. At night it drops to 70 throughout most of the tank. He's gained on average 25 grams a month for the past 4 months and gone from 286 grams when I got him to 428 on Thursday when I weighed him.

A ball python from Africa he is not. When it hits 82 in his cage, I can tell you exactly where he'll be without even going in the room. All coiled up at the extreme cool end of the cage. He always is.

Just my 2 cents

_________________
Rome did not build a great empire by having meetings, they did it by killing all who opposed them!

Jay

JuliusSqueezer · #9 (**permalink**) 10-21-2002, 05:07 PM

Oh man...J is right...for the most part anyway. Where are you guys getting this 90 degree temp thing on cornsnakes?

hehe what I meant about for the most part is...whoever said North American colubrids don't like heat has never driven across West Texas and marveled at the huge coachwhips out cruising in the blazing sun....I don't think you can hurt em if ya throw em in a camp fire. LOL...but that's an exception....a cornsnake is not.
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najaboy · #10 (**permalink**) 10-21-2002, 05:26 PM

Jay is right. The "hot spot" for corns should be in the lower to mid-eighties. N.A. colubrids have a lower PBT than most boids.

Many corns won't even "outgrow" mice. They're an acceptable food source for all but the largest of corns.

Two of the best corn breeders out there have already been mentioned- Rich Zuchowski and Don Sodenberg. Kathy Love is also on top of the list as well. Personally, I would recommend Rich, as I have a good rapport with him.

In my opinion, a fair price for albinos and snows ranges from $25-35. You'll be best served to take a trip to one of the upcoming shows in or around MI, as shipping would greatly increase the price of your corn. The added benefit to buying at a show is that you can hand-pick your animal.

Corns are no more escape artists than any other snake. If there's a weakness in the security of the enclosure, any snake will exploit it.
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froggystyle34 · #11 (**permalink**) 10-21-2002, 07:21 PM

yeah i checked the hot spot in my cage and it is 85 degrees, used the new temp gun i bought. i was going off the thermometer in the cage. the warm side is 82 degrees and the cold side is 78 degrees. geez i didnt think the thermometer couold be off so much. oh well i retract my former statement and welcome the slaps from everyone for being a retard.

froggy
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Voodoo · #12 (**permalink**) 10-23-2002, 12:50 AM

I got the 90 degree info from RTB, actually . . .

On y'all's caresheet for corns . . .

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> The daytime basking spot directly under the light or on top of the pad should be around 95°F, the warm side of the cage around the basking spot should be around 85-90°F. The heat source should be at one end of the cage to provide a gradient so the corn snake can move to both sides of the cage to thermo regulate. The cool side of the cage should be around 80-85°F. At night, the temps should drop around 5-10 degrees. </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

So, if that's wrong, someone might want to go change that. If I'd bought the snake at the store, I probably would've trusted the info on this site, since it's usually correct. And my poor thing would've fried.
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Dr.Oviparous · #13 (**permalink**) 10-23-2002, 12:51 PM

On another note.......<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> Should I wait until it's big enough for adult mice to convert to weanling rats (like I do for my BPs), </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE> I'm no Colubrid expert, I've only got a couple that are still on pink mice, so I wouldn't know in their case. But why wait for a BP? Why not get them on rats ASAP? -Juggalo
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Voodoo · #14 (**permalink**) 10-24-2002, 03:41 AM

On mice/rats:

They tell me to convert BPs to rats after the first year or so, cause apparently babies need something in the mousies.

I know there are rats equally sized to all mice (at rodentpro, anyway).

I was wondering if I should feed:

1) All mice
2) Mice, then convert to rats
3) All rats
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#15 (**permalink**) 10-24-2002, 03:37 PM

One of the most important things for any young animal is Calcium for growing skeletal structure. Therefore, it is much better (for snakes) to feed them young prey items when they're young, b/c young prey items have a higher calcium to phosphorus ratio. As mice and rats get older the ratio tends to drop.

Mice do not contain anything special that a rat doesn't, it's all about size/age of prey item. A rat crawler will have more calcium than an adult mouse. I've never kept royal pythons, so I don't know what size prey items they consume as juveniles/neonates. Size wise, if you have to choose between an adult mouse or a rat pup, go with the rat pup, it will have more available calcium for the young snake's bones.
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SnakePool · #16 (**permalink**) 10-24-2002, 04:15 PM

I got my baby ball on rats as soon as she would take them... a few months old. Corns will take just about anything you give them so rats or mice won't make to much of a difference.
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NickiEmm · #17 (**permalink**) 10-24-2002, 11:10 PM

Hey Voodoo how many bps do you have?? Is it really expensive to feed them all?
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Voodoo · #18 (**permalink**) 10-25-2002, 04:09 AM

I have 4 BPs. Two are smallish, and two are between 3-4ft.

The smaller ones eat a rat pup every week, and the big ones eat a medium rat every 3 weeks.

At RodentPro, I got a package of 50 rat pup, and 2 packs of 10 medium rats for about $50.00.

So, it's not too bad. More than if I only had one, but oh well. Hehe. I loves me babies.
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