Scale Problem, Please Help

Sly · #1 (**permalink**) 04-03-2002, 09:26 PM

My young garter has a problem with her scales. Most of the damaged scales are up near her head. I will try to attatch a pic, but don't hold your breath... I will also try to describe what I'm seeing. The scales look dry and brittle, some turned up at the edges, most showing black skin? between scales. She's fairly small, maybe 18-20" and is kept in a 10 gallon tank with a heat lamp w/ a 40 watt bulb on one side. Her substrate is paper towels or paper napkins. She has two water bowls, one small, one larger. She often rests her head on the small "rock" water bowl. Could it be too rough? Or is this a humidity problem? The warm side of her tank is about 88 degrees, sometimes reaching 90 in the afternoons and the cool side is about 82 degrees. Is this too warm? At night I cover the tank with a towel and turn off the heat lamp, allowing it to cool down to about 75, maybe a little cooler, but not much. Oh, and last week I treated her for mites using mineral oil. I've heard that could dry her out, but I don't know enough to know whether the scales are actually dried out... please reply, either public or private, with any advice you have to help! I have a couple of other pictures if you'd like to see them, too. Thank you so much!

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LdyDrgn · #2 (**permalink**) 04-04-2002, 01:35 AM

Sly, where in No. CA are you? If you're close enough, I could come and take a look...that pic is REAL blurry. It could possibly be scale rot. You would have to take the snake to a qualified vet for antibiotics as soon as possible. It affects internal systems as well the outer skin...what a nasty infection it is.
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Sly · #3 (**permalink**) 04-04-2002, 02:27 AM

Thanks for looking! I think the picture must have lost something in the resizing. I just uploaded several pics to her photo album. Hopefully those will be clearer for you. Copy entire website address, through jitami, to your browser and once you're to the site use the guest password Sly.

http://www.photoisland.com/servlet/G...SERNAME=jitami

Thanks for the offer to come and look at her, too! I'm a bit far from you, though. I'm just N.E. of Sacramento. I wouldn't mind bringing her down to you if it's necessary, though. It doesn't look like the pictures of scale rot that I've seen and her enclosure is always clean and dry, so I don't think it could be that, but who knows, I guess...

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#4 (**permalink**) 04-04-2002, 08:42 AM

Ok..I'm not an expert by any means on the garter snakes BUt I do keep em myself here. First off..
Did you rinse the mineral oil off the snake after a short while or just leave it on there? That's when people run into a problem with small snakes and using mineral oil..is when they leave the oil on the snake or just "soak" em in it for a great length of time even. The garter is really too small of a snake to use the mineral oil on even anyway. BUT I do not think that is the problem with your snake though.
It looks more like you have managed to overheat the poor lil thing possibly. It doesn't look dehydrated so much as it looks like the scales have dried up and "withered" on him [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif[/img] In all my garter cages I do NOT use any type of heating in their cages also, especially lights. They are fine just provided an environment to live in without any added heating/lighting elements. Unless you live in Alaska, I wouldn't do such to them.
Also..Why the papertowels as substrate? They actually like to burrow and roam about under/through their substrate. I use the forest floor bedding for mine or the bed - a - beast even. Also keep misting it on occasion for them too.

As for the scales. It doesn't look like scale rot from what I can see in the pics. I would just apply some neosproin to the scales and get his cage set up differntly. Watch him closely and take to vet if needed and doesn't look any better in a couple days.
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JuliusSqueezer · #5 (**permalink**) 04-04-2002, 08:43 AM

It could be scale rot or a thermal burn. Or it could be just a dried out over heated snake. 88-90 is way too hot for a baby garter. Rub neosporin on the bad belly scales daily till the next shed. It should all go away by then. No artificial light or heat is needed for them. They don't eat rodents....so they really don't even require belly heat to digest their worms and lil fish. They should be kept above 50 degrees and below 85. Room temp should fall into this range. In the wild, they are among the first to emerge in early spring and seem to enjoy the cooler weather. Also...if the snake is under a foot long, then it is best to use paper towels or newspaper because they have a hard time finding their worms....after 12 inches, it is best to let them root around and look for it in a moist substrate.

JuliusSqueezer · #6 (**permalink**) 04-04-2002, 08:46 AM

LOL opps Lori and I posted at the same time....hate when that happens.
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#7 (**permalink**) 04-04-2002, 08:59 AM

LMAO! AND the only thing we didn't confer on is the substrate even.hehe [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]
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JuliusSqueezer · #8 (**permalink**) 04-04-2002, 09:27 AM

actually we did...her snake is over a foot long...he should have some dirt to play in LOL
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#9 (**permalink**) 04-04-2002, 10:45 AM

LOL ...OK then we agreed. I thought you were saying NOt to provide anything but the papertowels for it.
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Sly · #10 (**permalink**) 04-04-2002, 06:14 PM

LOL... I love you guys!!! Thank you so much!!! No artificial heat? I can live with that! I had her in a sterile planting soil and bark substrate to begin with, but once I started reading about mites I did the mineral oil thing and placed her on paper towels only. I did leave the mineral oil on when I placed her back in her tank. I'm very much looking forward to putting a different substrate in there, but want to wait until she's totally healthy. I put neosporin on her last night and the scales already look a bit better. They look more smooth and less damaged. Whether it's from the moisturizing properties or antibacterial properties I really don't know or care! Hopefully this will get her back on the right track. While she's being treated with the neosporin what type of substrate should I use? Someone on a garter list thought it could be blister disease(although I see no fluid filled anything) and she recommened no substrate at all right now. What do you think? She also recommended wiping the area with betadine prior to putting on neosporin. I was going to pick some up today... neither of you mentioned it, though, and I'm inclined to think it's a heat/dryness problem rather than blisters or scaler rot, but trust your opinions way more than my own at this point!!!

Did I say Thank you? Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!!

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#11 (**permalink**) 04-04-2002, 11:05 PM

OK..As far as the "Blister" disease goes...I have seen water pythons { think that's what they were] with such..AND it looks nothing like what your snake has got going from what I see here. I beleive that it is usually the water/aquatic ss thatget that disease also even. Someone will correwct me if I am wrong though hehe.
Oh YEAH>>Make sure that the neosporin that you use does NOT contain any type of anesthetic in it also, like lidocaine..forgot that one I believe [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]
As for the substrate to use at this time...Is there any type of oozing from the scale area that has this going on at all? I didn't notice anything like that BUT... IF there is..DON'T use anything but papertoels as the substrate till healed up. IF it is just basically dried up then you could use the stuff I mentioned for a substrate...AND....Keep in mind that your snake will also have the "dirt" adhering to it's underside as a result of the neosporin on it. SO ya may want to wait on the substrate thing till more so healed up then.
As for the betadine thing..I personally wouldn't. This is a fairly small snake and I even hesitate to use it on my larger snakes even. IF used you MUST dilute it to the point of barely being colored...like a VERY weak tea also. IF you want to cleanse the area prior to putting the neosporin on..then just go ahead and use some hydrogen peroxide to cleanes the area. Just hold the snake over a sink and run some of it over the area and let it run off into the sink is all. Then dry the snake after prior to applying the neosporin to the underbelly.
Whatever you do with the snake's environment..make sure you get rid of the lighting at this time..DON'T wait on that [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Hope that helps ya out some ! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
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Sly · #12 (**permalink**) 04-05-2002, 02:36 AM

Thanks Lori! Don't worry about the anesthetic thing. I had read somewhere else, probably some scale rot article, not to use any of the plus versions with pain killer. I got original neosporin and have a gooey little snake who sticks to the glass...lol... not too bad, though. The light is gone and I'll skip the betadine for now. There is no oozing going on, but she's pretty sticky with the neosporin, so I'll wait for the nice substrate [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] You've helped a ton and I am so greatful!

Tami

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#13 (**permalink**) 04-05-2002, 04:30 AM

NP ! Need anything else just ask away..someone will answer for ya...
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Sly · #14 (**permalink**) 04-06-2002, 01:32 AM

I just wanted to let you all know that Sly looks even better today and to thank each of you for all of your help and suggestions!

Tami
[img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
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LdyDrgn · #15 (**permalink**) 04-06-2002, 05:20 AM

So very glad to hear it, Sly! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Ya...Lori and Brett are the best. I've asked for their help many a time. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
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#16 (**permalink**) 04-06-2002, 05:46 AM

Great to hear Tami !
Once ya get some sheds under the belt ya won't even notice this went on either hehe. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

OOOPS! Just noticed what I said the other day... In regards to the lighting....I did mean the lighting for heat ya know...You could use some type of lighting for lighting the cage though, just not for heating it. Maybe like a blacklight/flourescent light possibly. If you wanted to of course that is. Not neccessary..I don't keep lighting on my snakes like the garters myself..just use the house lighting for em is all.
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