Questions about a Veiled Cham setup

CruiserMaiden · #1 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 05:13 AM

I am getting a young (4-5") sunburst orange veiled chameleon in the next couple of days. I have never had a chameleon before, but I am determined, and I have done massive research on the type I am getting. He will be living in an aquarium just long enough for his supplies to arrive from the website I am ordering from. I am placing my order for my terrarium and supplies, and the suggested substrate by the website I am using is moss. I had read several places that using moss or other ingestible substrate is bad, as the chameleon may eat it and become impacted. So far, I have picked out a 38 gal reptarium (as suggested by the breeder I am getting him from), 18" hood with super UVB tube light, an 8.5" clamp lamp with spot basking light, vitamin and calcium dusts, a hygrometer and thermometer, water conditioner, and a little drip system. I have made him a big leafy "tree" out of assorted plastic/silk plants from the craft store, sanitized and set in a small flower pot with concrete, with lots of leafy branches for him to climb on. I still have some questions about setting things up, as follows:

1. What is a good substrate, is moss ok,or what is better that wont make him sick? (most things I read say no moss, but dont suggest what to use instead)

2. Does he need a hidebox at the bottom of the cage too, or will he hide in the tree?

3. With the drip system, do I need to still mist the cage as often, at all, or just enough to keep the humidity ok?

4. Does he also need vines (like those little bendable vines from the pet store) or just use the little branches from his "tree"?

5. Is it best to have some very open places to bask (no leaves, just branch), or will he prefer to stay hidden in the open places of the leaves?

6. Should I put the heat/basking lamp in the same area as the UVB tube? The tube will cover most the the reptarium with light, but should I provide two seperate basking places? (one for the UVB, one somewhere else for the heat, or both the UVB and the heat lamp on top with a basking place underneath it? I was thinking they should be together that way he is getting UVB when he goes naturally for the heat, I don't know if they seek UVB instinctually?)

7. When placing him in his cage after removing him *I know you aren't supposed to take them out much, but for cleaning or whatever* do I place him on the tree or on the floor of the reptarium?

I have more questions, but this will help me get the cage set up for now. Thanks

Mary

reptilemama · #2 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 01:26 PM

1. Don't use any substrate at all. Chams have a tendency to ingest substrate, so it's best to use none. I suppose if you really wanted you could use paper towels or newspaper, but you want the water from the dripper to be able to flow out of the cage and into a catch bin.
2. Don't bother. If you ever find your cham on the bottom of the cage, figure he might be sick and get him in to a vet. Chameleons are built for living in trees and rarely, if ever, leave the safety of the branches.
3. It won't hurt to mist, too, and will help keep the humidity up. I used an ultrasonic humidifier combined with a dripper for my panther chameleon, and it worked well to keep humidity up and provide drinking water.
4. As long as the cage is pretty full of plants, he won't need anything else. Live plants work well to help keep humidity up, too. I like Hibiscus or schefflera (sometimes called umbrella plants).
5. At least at first, he's probably prefer to stay hidden, so fill the cage with as much foliage as you can.
6. One basking spot should be enough, and with a fairly small cage like a 38 gallon reptarium, it would be hard to provide two without overheating the cage. Having both heat and UV in the same spot is good- I actually prefer using a mercury vapor bulb that provides both in one bulb.
7. Put him in the tree- he'll feel safer there.

Just a word of advice- I suggest you ask the breeder to hold on to the sham until you get your reptarium set up. He'll be less stressed and more likely to eat well in a screen cage, and he'll only have to be moved once (from the breeder to you) instead of twice. Every move, whether it's from one home to another or just to a different cage, os stressful, and because chameleons are so delicate, you want to keep him as stress-free as possible.

CruiserMaiden · #3 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 02:19 PM

You mentioned that a 38 gal was fairly small, I've wanted to get a 65, but the breeder said a 38 would be "good for life" ? I dont want to make it TOO big, as he might be scared while hes small. Should I get the bigger one?

Mary

ann0306 · #4 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 03:00 PM

Can the UVB from the tube permeate the reptarium? I've heard it can't- just wanted to be sure.

CruiserMaiden · #5 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 09:34 PM

The breeder said it should work just fine, I've also read that if enough light doesnt go through, I could also hang it up inside the very top of the cage if it doesnt emit much heat, but since I havent got it yet, I don't know. Anybody have any suggestions about the 38 vs the 65 gal reptarium?

Mary

Also, to the person who was concerned about moving the cham from the aquarium to the reptarium, I was told that if I don't have a choice (and by the time I saw your message he had already been shipped) That I should just place the aquarium in the bottom of the reptarium and leave the lid off and a branch nearby for him to climb on, that way its his choice if he wants to leave the aquarium, and then once he stops goin in there, I just take the aquarium out. Will that work?

reptilemama · #6 (**permalink**) 06-11-2005, 12:26 AM

I'm honestly not sure about the UV. I only used a reptarium for temporary housing when I moved and for occasional outdoor time. Mine was a 65, and I felt it was much too small for permanent housing for my female panther chameleon. Veileds, especially males, get twice the size of female panthers. I've heard concerns that babies have a hard time finding food in large cages, but I cup fed my panther and had no problems. The reptarium will probably be ok to start out with, but honestly I didn't like mine all that much. (poor visability and the zippers were a pain in the butt) I built a cage for my cham, and it was twice the size of the largest reptarium available. It was 4 feet wide, 2 deep, and 6 tall. She used every bit of it- she'd bask by the lights, sit in front of the window near the cage, and climb through the plants constantly. I always had lots of potted plants in there, and she used the large pots for laying eggs. (Females will lay eggs even if never bred, so egg binding is a worry- keeping females from getting to heavy will help.) If it was me, I'd use the reptarium until your cham outgrows it, then build something much bigger. Your cham will love you for it!

CruiserMaiden · #7 (**permalink**) 06-11-2005, 03:44 AM

ok so no substrate. I'll get the 65gal for now and see how it works out as he grows up. The breeder did say that the 38 would be "good for life" for him, but I want him to have lots of room. You sure that the 65 wont scare him while he's little? (he's only gonna be 4-5"). Also, I've read about bowl feeding a cham, but I cant figure out how its done? won't the crickets hop out of a bowl? I was thinking that maybe you put a lid on it, but how do you make it so that the cham can get the crickets without them getting out? Also, where do you get good potted plants for them? I didnt want to go to the home store or whatever, because I figured they would have pesticides on them, and the petstores nearby dont have any. Where would I look? Thanks for all the replies!

Mary

reptilemama · #8 (**permalink**) 06-11-2005, 03:17 PM

My panther female was about 4-5 inches snout to tail, and had no problems even in a huge cage. Remember that in the wild they have as much space as they want! As long as he has plenty of foliage and can get from one area to another without having to leave the branches and leaves, he'll be ok. I used a plastic deli cup for the crickets, and cut a hole in the lid big enough for the chameleon to see the crickets and then go catch them. Crickets tend to jump more horizontally then vertically, so it's hard for them to get out of a cup. Just make sure you wash out the cup frequently so no bacteria builds up. Go ahead and buy your plants wherever you can get them. You'll need to re-pot them in organic soil with NO additives (or plain top soil if you can't find organic), and then put them in the shower for an hour or so to help rinse off the leaves. I know some people who even use a spray bottle of soapy water to wash them first, then rinse well. Because veileds are more likely then panthers to eat the leaves, you may want to even go one step further and give the plants a month or so to get rid of any toxins before you put it in the cage.

CruiserMaiden · #9 (**permalink**) 06-11-2005, 07:45 PM

We'll he arrived today, man is he tiny! He looks (to me) to be really only 3" from nose to tail. I cancelled the order for the reptarium and went ahead and got him an aluminum screen cage for until he gets bigger. If I were to put this little one in a 65 gal reptarium, I'd never find him! (not to mention his food is so small, that it could escape from the mesh of a reptarium). Thanks so much everyone, I'll post a pic of him as soon as I can figure out how...

Mary

CruiserMaiden · #10 (**permalink**) 06-12-2005, 04:28 AM

i cant figure out how to put pics on posts, but his pic is in my gallery =)

TheOtherAndy · #11 (**permalink**) 06-12-2005, 04:41 AM

I have no experience whatsoever with chams, but one nice thing about bowl feeding (treefrogs, in my case) is that you can put a little Ca powder in the bottom of the bowl. The crickets then pretty much dust themselves continuously. If only everything that ate crickets would take them that way.

CruiserMaiden · #12 (**permalink**) 06-12-2005, 04:46 AM

I cant figure out if he's eating the crickets or not? they're real tiny, and i found one outside of the cage, but i dont see the other 10 i put in there, so im guessing they're all either in his tummy, or in my bed.... i hope its the first thing... the breeder was feeding him free, and I didnt want to stress him even more by "hiding" his food, you know?

Mary

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