natural cages?

reptilemama · #1 (**permalink**) 11-25-2002, 07:21 PM

Every year my husband gets three good-sized bonuses, and I usually end up spending part of it on another animal or two. This year, I've decided I really don't need any more animals right now, even though there are still a lot of things I'd like to have. I thin kthis year I'm going to work on making my current animal's lives better. I'm thinking about setting up some more natural looking cages. After reading this post, I thought my animals could also benefit from nicer cages. I won't have the room to build large cages for everybody, but I thought I could build a few, and maybe rotate who gets to live in them. If I het nice enough cages, maybe hubby will even let me put one or two in the living room. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] I was just wondering if anyone had any input on the idea. I'm thinking of building nice tall cages, with plenty of climbing and basking areas, and maybe even a pool in the bottom with a drain. One of my concerns is substrate-what should I use? I've thought about putting in some plants, so should I just use soil and plant directly in the cage? Or should I use something else and leave the plants in pots, so they'll be easier to replace if/when they get trampled? Any ideas on how to keep the substrate out of the water? How about treaing for mites, if/when I get another dreaded infestation? Could I just spray this type of cage with some Black Knight, or would I have to tear the whole thing apart? If anyone has tried this, let me know. I know it sounds ambitious, but since we will have the money to do it, I would really like to have some nice, museum/zoo type display cages.

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herp_chick · #2 (**permalink**) 11-25-2002, 07:47 PM

My response is mainly for the mite issue. I use sawyer's tick repellent(Walmart, about$6).You just remove snake and water bowl and spray inside the cage, sides and all, and cover ventilation, to hold the spray inside the cage for one hour. then uncover vetilation and open cage to air out for 2 hours. It works great, and one treatment usually does the trick, even for a bad infestation. As for substrate, some others will come along who can advise you better than I, but I would not use soil, as it will be hard to keep clean, and could possibly contribute to scale rot, becaues of urates and such soaking into the soil. But some one wiser than I will come along and help ya with substrate. Good luck! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
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Nyte · #3 (**permalink**) 11-25-2002, 09:07 PM

First, it would be easier if you said exactly what was going in the cage. There can bea world of difference there. If it is a large snake, then unless you use trees, plants will gtet destroyed, but you can try. I would keep them in pots, maybe you can rotate them out to heal. Any substrate you use is going to get replaced fairly frequently with the fecal and urinary habits of especially larger boas. Cypress mulch, shredded coconut, plain soil with no fertilizer are all options, though the question is, how much time do you want to spend cleaning up. Taller cages are nice, but harder to heat well. The pool idea is great, just make sure you can sanitize it easily. Other than those concerns, sounds like a fun project.

Brian
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Ed_r · #4 (**permalink**) 11-25-2002, 09:22 PM

You would probably have to drain the environment. I've seen these at the Tinley Park show and they are AWESOME, also carry an awesome price tag too. I know Rob Carmichael personally, he is a member of the CHS in Chicago. Great guy! I will ask him when I see him next time. Possibly on Wednesday at our meeting. Or else he runs the Lake Forest Nature Center you can contact him yourself. Sorry I don't have the number handy.
As far as the setups are you don't use substrate in them. Thats how they are displayed. Mostly these are made for Arboreal species. But I'm sure you could make a catch filter if you wanted to.
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reptilemama · #5 (**permalink**) 11-25-2002, 11:09 PM

Thanks Ed! I haven't decided if I'm going to buy a cage from Habitat Systems, or try to build one myself. I hadn't thought about not using any substrate at all. That might be the way to go. The cages will be for boas and ball pythons. I'll probably do a shorter cage for the ball pythons than I would for the boas. Part of what got me thinking about big cages is the one I just finished. As some of you probably know, we're staying with my parents until we can get our mobile home moved. My largest boa was NOT happy in her tote, and got a bit of a nose rub. I ended up turning the space under the basement steps into a big cage for her. It already had a couple shelves in it, so I covered the shelves and part of the walls with contact paper to make it easier to clean and keep her from cominginto contact with any old chemicals in the walls. (It used to be my dad's ammo loading room and I was concerned with the lead.) I put one of Tom McCarthy's light guards on the ceiling fixture, and put a heat pad on the bigger shelf, and lined everything with newspaper. I also got I had used in an old iggy cage that my brother was storing for me, and used it to give her a way to get from the floor to the shelves. Put a door on the whole thing, and viola, new cage. So far, she seems to enjoy it. The light bulb keeps it fairly warm, and the heat pad gives her a basking spot. Anyway, she seems to like all the space, so I figure I'll have to build her another big cage when we get the house moved. And as long as I'm going to go to the work of building a big cage, why not make it as luxurious as possible. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Thanks for the ideas so far, keep them coming! By the time we get the house moved, I may actually have some plans ready to get started!

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Ed_r · #6 (**permalink**) 12-01-2002, 01:13 AM

Just an update. I talked to Rob on Wednesday. The enclosure he has now he is using for arboreals (Carpet Pythons) he does use substrate in it but since the snakes are mostly in the trees not much of any substrate comes in contact with the water. The enclosure he was talking about for the Ball Pythons will not have the running water in it so a normal substrate can be used. He has a few of them on display are loves the setup. He is talking about changing over almost all of the enclosures to them. Must be nice to be funded by Lake Forest. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

FYI, for the non-Chicago locals Lake Forest is a very upscale town, at least it's good to know the high taxes are going to some good. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
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Tom · #7 (**permalink**) 12-01-2002, 01:57 AM

Hi reptilemama,

Do not forget I can make you any size cage you need. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
For example I could put a cage inside of a bar, a wall unit cage, a cage inside of a entertainment center. or just a nice sized cage you could put any where you want.
Just let me know what you would like?

This cage is 4' wide X 2' deep X 4' high.

This unit measures 8' wide X 2' deep, the top cage is 4' high, and the bottom is 20" high.

I know everyone has seen this one but I still like to show it off. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Each cage is 72" wide, 24" deep and 20" high.

Take care,
Tom
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jpaulson · #8 (**permalink**) 12-01-2002, 02:05 AM

Tom,

I have been to your site, and your cages are awesome!! Unfortunately, they are a little pricey. I, for one, cannot afford a 1500.00 cage. I wish I could, but I can't. I am going to build my own, and therefore, have more money left to add to my collection.

Please understand, I am not saying they are not worth it. I, for one, cannot afford it.
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Tom · #9 (**permalink**) 12-01-2002, 02:30 AM

Hi jpaulson71,

I do understand and yes my cages are expensive, but if you take in effect that most cheap cages only last about 2 or 3 years.
My cages will last the lifetime of your reptile and then some. So if you have a boa that lives for 25 + years you would have spent
more money on the cheap cages apposed to one of my cages. This is why I started to make my own cages I could never find a well made wood cage.

If you need any sliding door track, Kane heat mats or some other hardware let me know. I do sell some of the hardware I use on my cages or I can tell you where to get it from.

Thanks & take care,
Tom

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faze · #10 (**permalink**) 12-01-2002, 03:54 AM

tom im in the same boat as j here but i will keep you in mind when i need a nice display cage for the shop for a atb,etb or a gtp [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
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#11 (**permalink**) 12-02-2002, 04:01 PM

A possibility for the live plants:

Keep them in plastic litter pans, like you can get from Walmart etc. With a jigsaw you could cut a hole to size in the floor of the cage and set the pans with plants in them. Granted, you'd have to give up 4-6" of height b/c you'd actually need 2 floors; one that the actual cage would sit on and another 4-6" higher for the bottom of the pans to disappear into. This however would probably also facilitate a flush level "pond" with a drain. Then you could just alternate pans of plants if some get damaged and/or pooped on/in.

For an idea of what I'm talking about, check out the pics in my photo album of my watersnake's enclosure. It's a regular 20L glass tank, but I made a little platform that I inserted into the 20L such that a 12x8 litter pan (water dish) sits flush with the rest of the floor.

I'm not sure how well this would work for a big, strong snake, they might be able to get it pryed up and get under it, but you could always get proportionally larger pans to make this more difficult...
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reptilemama · #12 (**permalink**) 12-02-2002, 06:22 PM

We're thinking about getting one of these-http://www.jworlds.net/design.html. Tom, I really like your cages, but hubby says if we're going to have a cage in the living room, he wants it to look less like a cage and more like a display. Although someday when I'm rich, I'd like to have my whole snake room done with your cages. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] What does everyone think of these Jworlds cages? If I get one, I want a big one. I'll probably house one or two boas in it. I'm thinking I want the "amazon pool" model, and I'll leave the water level low enough so there is dry land on both sides. The more I thought about building one, the more I decided it would be a real pain in the butt to get it to look like I wanted. I'm hoping when hubby gets his bonus in March or April we will be able to afford one of these.

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Tom · #13 (**permalink**) 12-02-2002, 11:21 PM

Hi reptilemama,

I could make a cage look any way you want.
Jworlds cages are nice but if you think my cages are expensive wait until you get a estimate from Jworld.
The "Amazon pool" model is $3500.00 + extras and shipping. It is a very nice looking cage.
I could make you a cage that is 8' x 2' x 8' for around $2,400.00 and you would still have over a $1,000.00 to decorate the cage your self. You sure can make a cage look very nice with $1,000.00.

Take care,
Tom

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SnakePool · #14 (**permalink**) 12-03-2002, 02:39 PM

Tom how do you keep the snakes from coming into contact with the light bulbs.

Tom · #15 (**permalink**) 12-03-2002, 07:15 PM

Hi SnakePool,

This is how I cover the lights and CHE.

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reptilemama · #16 (**permalink**) 12-03-2002, 07:40 PM

I can vouch for those guards. I just got one and it works perfectly. Easy to install and remove, too. Tom, you've got me rethinking this whole cage thing. It's going to be a while before we have the money to do it, but I may email you with some ideas and see what you think.

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Tom · #17 (**permalink**) 12-04-2002, 04:01 AM

No problem ReptileMama, just e-mail me your ideas and I will try and make a print of what you want. I can e-mail it back to you so you can see if it is what you want. When you are ready for me to make it, we'll already have the print for it.

Thanks,
Tom
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