How\'s this for a BP cage setup?

Dani · #1 (**permalink**) 10-22-2002, 11:35 AM

Hi to everyone,

I'm building a new terrarium for my BP who's 80 cm (32&quot

right now. The dimensions are about: 136 cm long x 78 cm deep x 61 cm high. This is approximately 54" long x 31" deep x 24" high (around 200 gal. if my calculations are correct). The wood is 3/4" thick (everything but the front sliding doors) and the glass will be about 1/5" thick (haven't bought this yet). Do you think that is thick enough? As far as ventilation goes I haven't done anything yet. I've thought about drilling in a few holes in the top left corner and a few in the low right corner. What do you think? How many?
It will be installed in my bedroom. I don't live in this house yet, but I do know that it receives quite a bit of sunlight until late afternoon (not direct; direct sunlight just in the morning hours say 8 AM to 10 AM). The room itself has very good ventilation, and the terrarium would be placed beside it in a corner.
I'm not sure about the temperatures. I'm more worried about winter time, even though there is a room heater right under the window. It's a colder place than where I live now. A rough estimate could be between 10ºC and 15ºC (50ºF - 59ºF) for the low, but more likely like 20 to 25ºC (68ºF - 77ºF) with the heater turned on in the winter time.

As far as what I've purchased for heating, I have two Zoo Med 150W ceramic heat emitters that I haven't installed into it yet (I was thinking of installing these on the left side, making that the hot side). They will be hooked up to a proportional thermostat which has a night drop. I also have a red night light to be able to see her at night without disturbing her photoperiods. This won't be hooked up to the thermostat as I think it won't be necessary. I'll be able to turn it on if needed at any time though and would probably be placed in the middle of the cage. And that's it for heating.
For lights I only have a ReptiSun 2.0 30W fluorescent that'll be placed in the center of the top.
All of these items will be placed inside the cage with adequate metal wire to protect her from coming into contact with them. How far should I place the wiring from the ceramic heat emitters so that she wouldn't get burnt if she touches them?

My doubts come from reading some posts from other websites in which one person said that the ceramic heat emitters of the type that I've bought are more for basking spot and didn't heat the whole cage, just the area underneath the emitters and that to extreme temps (something like +100ºF), this I'm not worried about since the thermostat will control it. What I am worried about is that the whole terrarium gets heated up to atleast 77ºF in the daytime and then have the hot end at about 88ºF which would create the appropriate heat gradient, right? Am I going about it the wrong way? Which side should the thermostat probe be placed on, the hot or not so hot side? When we talk about temps, do we mean the temperature of the substrate (which is the one the snake receives), the temperature 1" above the substrate (which is probably very similar to the first) or the air temperature (which if heated from above would be hotter than the substrate or colder if heated from below)? What is best, the air temperature being hotter or colder than the substrate temperature?

I haven't installed anything into the cage, so I've still got time to make any adjustments. Give me your opinion and let me know if I should buy something else like under substrate heat cords...

Thanks for reading. I realize my few posts are pretty long, I guess it's just that I want to get everything perfect for her and I think you are all more expert on the subject than I am so I will gladly listen to any advice from you. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
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Nyte · #2 (**permalink**) 10-22-2002, 01:37 PM

Hi, sounds like you have put a lot of thought into this. I use Ceramic Heat Emiters for my two boas, and they do great. They do provide a pretty warm heat spot, but also heat teh rest of teh nclosure quite well. I could be wrong, but I would think that one 150 watt CHE would be at least enough for your enclosure, but if they are going to be on a proportioning thermo, then it probably won't hurt. I have found, interestingly enough, that my ball pythons prefer to spend a deal of time under a fairly high temp hot spot, and they thermo regulate just fine. My only concern with a cage that big is how secure teh snake will feel, as foar as eating goes. I have a Ball Python that won't eat if I keep him in anything bigger than a 20 regular.

Good luck,
Brian
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Dani · #3 (**permalink**) 10-22-2002, 01:58 PM

Thanks for your reply Nyte,

Yeah, I have put in quite a lot of thought into it. But I do like to get input from more experienced keepers as I have only kept snakes for 4 months (this is my first), and most of what I know isn't from hands on experience.
How big is your BP that you keep in the 20 gal.?
Just a question about heating lamps. I don't know if you have a regular basking spot lamp that also produces light but my question is, would a BP or any snake for that matter prefer to bask under a ceramic heat emitter (which produces no light) or under a basking spot lamp (which produces light even though it heats a little less)? I wonder if anyone has noticed this.
Do you feed him in the cage or in a separate feeding box?
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Stormyva · #4 (**permalink**) 10-22-2002, 02:30 PM

I agree with Nyte about the new enlosure possibly being too big for your snake now.
My ball python which is about 30" is in a 20 gal long right now and seems to be doing great. I have one 60 watt Nocturnal Spot (dark blue light) on the hot side. Under the lamp I have a hide that I keep filled with moist spaghum moss to keep the humidity up in the cage. The snake frequently moves back and forth from the humid hide on the hot side to the "rock" cave on the other side.
I feed in a separate enclosure, but in order for it to eat the feed box has to be covered with a towel so that the snake has privacy.
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herm · #5 (**permalink**) 10-22-2002, 02:41 PM

My ceramic heater heats up the viv nicely, but with a cage as big as yours, a heat panel might be more economical in the long run.

I'm not an expert, but from talking to other herpers, I believe Nyte is correct when he says the cage may be too big for you snake to feel comfortable.

That's my $.02. Let's see some pics of that BP!!
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Dani · #6 (**permalink**) 10-22-2002, 03:14 PM

Thanks for the input. I think you're right about the new cage being too big for now. Right now I have her in a 18-20 gal. long too but I feel it's too cramped in there that's why I started building the new one. I'm not going to have it ready for another month or so. But I can't afford to be building/buying new cages all the time and I want to give her some room so I decided to build a cage that would suit her the rest of her life.
Stormyva, how old is your BP? The reason I ask is I don't know how old mine is, I think around 1 year old, maybe 1 1/2.
I've looked at the Pro-Products Radiant Heat Panels and I will get one if I see that it's too costly to run the ceramics or am not able to achieve the desired temps.
Definitely, I want to post pics of my pride and joy and of the new cage too. Sadly, I don't have a digital camera or a scanner. Hopefully I will buy either of them soon.
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Stormyva · #7 (**permalink**) 10-22-2002, 03:46 PM

To the best of my knowledge my ball python is about 5 or 6 months old. It was purchased from a pet store and they could not tell me much more than it came from a local breeder (so it was captive bred) and that it was eating regularly. They guy working the day I purchased it could not tell me the name of the breeder.

Have you looked at or considered flex-watt heat tape as a heating option. Very inexpensive and appears to be easy to use. I am going to switch all of my cages over to that with the bulbs as supplemental heat. The heat tape is also a lot more efficient. I will be able to heat all 4 my cages for about what it costs me to run the two 60 Watt bulbs I have on the smaller cages!
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Dani · #8 (**permalink**) 10-22-2002, 04:15 PM

No, I haven't looked into flex-watt heat tape. You're suggesting it as a secondary heat source right? What company makes them? Flex-watt? Is it more efficient than heat mats or heat cable? Where can it be installed? Is it ok for a wooden terrarium?
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Stormyva · #9 (**permalink**) 10-22-2002, 05:47 PM

It seems that a lot of people use flexwatt heat tape as the primary source for heat.
It supposedly can be attached directly to a wood surface.

Here are a few links on the stuff.....

http://www.constrictors.com/Supplies/heat.html
http://www.kingsnake.com/obsoleta/flexwatt.htm
http://www.arbreptiles.com/cages/flexwire.html

Hope the information helps.

I am going to use 1' sections for the 11" 40 watt hooked up to a dimmer switch (rheostat) for my 40 gal tanks (36x1

.
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NYCSpeedcore · #10 (**permalink**) 10-22-2002, 06:01 PM

Welcome to RTB Dani! I have read through your original post and have a few suggestions. The cage is too large for a full grown ball python... I am sure the extra room will not hurt him but since you are concerned about how low the cage temps are going to drop during the winter I would suggest makeing the cage a little smaller so it is easier to heat. Something around 4ft long x 2.5ft wide x 1.5ft high will be more than adiquite for him and be much easier to heat. When you build the cage if possible try not to lay it on the floor itself. This way when the winter comes or in the summer with an airconditioner the cold air will not sink to the floor and change the cage temps drasticly. A room's temperature gradient can easily change 8 degrees from floor to ceiling. Two feet off the floor or even a foot up would help a lot. The digital proportional thermostat is the way to go... but like someone mentioned on the site before it will be hard to heat such a large cage with CHE's, even two. You can do it, but if you have the option of returning them I would suggest going with a heat pannel such as one found at www.Pro-Products.com A heat pannel spaces out the heating element over a larger area, so those "hot spots" don't occur. They also do not get hot enough to burn your animal if they accidently touch it, so you do not need to wire coat them. Another plus is that they mount flat (hence they are called a pannel [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] ). Flouresent lighting is a good way to go, it will light up the cage without effecting the cage temps too much, just make sure to cover it so the snake does not wrap itself around it and possibly breaking the bulb and hurting itself. Since you are using wood make sure to seal it really well! Use a heavy marine type sealer with a few coats all around the wood cage, allowing two weeks for it to cure fully. Get some silicon just like used in glass aquariums and seal all around the cracks of the cage. You could use 1/2 inch plywood safely, so 3/4 inch will be more than enough. For ventalation, cut out a small square on either side of the cage about midway down and cover it with some screen, or drill a few holes. That along with the gap from the glass doors should be enough for what the snake needs. Just do not put the ventalation right at the top of the cage, it will let too much heat escape out of the cage.

Sorry for that essay, but hope that helps out a little, take care and once again, welcome to RTB!
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