General opinions wanted on unusual second season...

[Vegetatoboaotaku]

OK... this is going to be long but bare with me...
I made a similar post to this on k-snake 2 weeks ago and i was semi-reassured but then it's just gotten weirder... so i'm going to enquire here and see what responses i get...

This years breeding attempts with my proven pair have been confusing at best...
Last year had courting start upon introduction and go for 4 months. The was fed occasionally when courting slowed down and the male was fed maybe once of twice total. There were no sheds before ovulation by either animal. She ovulated in january, shed in febuary, and babies were thrown 108 days later... all was well...
This year I introduced them at the same time... with the same treatment... same cooling... same cage even... and yet courting has been light if nothing at all... both recently went into a shed... when they came out of shed i expected them to go at it with vigor... no such luck... The male though is in seek and mate mode. He spends all his time trying to escape...
And if you think maybe she's pregnant... i really don't think i've missed ovulation (it was really hard to miss last year) and she eats with normal gusto... no HCP either.
sooooo???

For those of you who have bred the same animals for multiple seasons...
Do ovulation and POS dates seem to remain similar from year to year on the same female? Or does it vary depending on the male courting or time of introduction?

so yeah this>>> [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img] is me right now.... really...

Any opinions are appreciated! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
[addsig]

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[cb76]

its weird with colombians! assuming thats what your talking about.

i find (as well as many others) colombian bci dont need much to get going in the mating department!!

i have had successful breedings in the middle of summer at 90 degrees!
i have had success in breeding during the "normal' time of yr with out doing climactic manipulations, and i have had successes with doing manipulations.

i have noticed females go through their changes and ovulate with or with out the male presant, with or with out climat manipulations.

this yr, i have many females that are and have ovulated very heavily- with no male in sight and nothing done to the temps/ humidity/ and light cycles.

i have bred gals up consecutivly every yr- with no problems, and i find the clutches get much larger!

they are who they are- whether we like it or not. it may be you missed ovulation, or maybe she didnt wanna go into it!

what i would do, is take away the male and introduce him back at a later date! it worked for a friend of mine who described a similar situation as you have. also, maybe a very light misting in the evening. it may get the air moving and the pharomomnes going.

if she bred last yr, make sure she is at proper gestation weight! for me, thats nothing under 25 lbs depending on the subspecies.

good luck!
[addsig]

	Boa Constrictor Imperator Boa Constrictor (Boa constrictor imperator). Most common is the Colombian Boa.

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[Vegetatoboaotaku]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> its weird with colombians! assuming thats what your talking about.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
Ha ha! I can't believe I didn't mention that! But yeah they are Colombians...

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>what i would do, is take away the male and introduce him back at a later date! </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
I didn't mention that but I did try it... For about two weeks... He courted her lightly... and then stopped a few days later...

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> it may be you missed ovulation, or maybe she didnt wanna go into it! </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE> I'm really starting to think she just hasn't gone into to breeding mode yet...

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>make sure she is at proper gestation weight! for me, thats nothing under 25 lbs depending on the subspecies </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, she's back up... She put weight back on faster than I assumed and I fed her on her normal two week schedule...

Thanks for responding... I guess now I'll just have to play the waiting game some more... It's such a looooooooooonnnnnnnnggg game... [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
[addsig]

[cb76]

it sure is!

good luck [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
[addsig]

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[Ed_r]

Funny I'm runing into the same thing with all 3 of my girls. My male is all over them like a cheap suit. All 3 girls have been copulated numerous times(yup he's a stud) Not one is showing signs of ovulating. All 3 have a normal diet. If I end up dry with all 3 girls I'll be very disappointed. All 3 girls she within a week of each other too. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]
[addsig]

[Vegetatoboaotaku]

I'm going to update for you guys....
The didn't court at all from when i posted this to now...
And I didn't witness ovulation...
But she had a super long shed cycle, i noticed her going blue 3/8 and then she shed 3/27.... her only shed that lasted a similar length was last years POS....
now she does sometime go into a modest heat conservation position.... but i could be just her coiling up... she takes forever to eat! forever! 4 hours to eat one rat..... and she grabs the rat when i give it to her.... and just holds it and mouths it and nudges it around the trash can i feed her in... it's rediculous...
she's also gotten plump... not bloated yet but plump...

sooo in my opinion she managed to get pregnant with essentially no courting... saved sperm from last year maybe?
if she is preggy then 105 is July 10th..... we'll have to see.... [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
[addsig]

[hisba]

Good question! Since this is the first year for me with actual breeding, I can't offer
a lot of insight, but here are some (truncated) records from one of the breedings I did this year:
1.0 het x 0.1 albino
11/5/02 - put male in with female
11/11/02 - first courting witnesed
12/4/02 - first time seen 'squeezing' female in 15-20 second intervals
12/5/02 - female shed
12/16/02 - female stretched out with subtle curves (believe pre-ov swell)
12/18/02 - male seen heavy courting, tail waving, poss mating
12/24/02 - boas on opp. ends of cages
1/14/03 - no activity seen for last week or so, took male out
1/15/03 - fed both
1/31/03 - last few days female has been stretched out with wavy sides (belive pre-ov twist)
so I put the male back in this day
2/5/03 - he has been ignoring her this entire time, took him out.
3/14/03 - streched out with lots of curves
3/19/03 - put male back in again, he courted off and on next few days, nothing like before tho
3/27/03 - nothing seen last week or so, removed male last time, female very swollen, belive this is ovulation
4/15/03 - POS

Now, will this breeding produce babies? I'm not sure, the only mating and heavy courting
took place in Nov. and Dec, but she didn't have her POS until 4 months later. I have
read about them storing sperm, so it's very possible, but I'm just keeping my fingers crossed.
I believe your case could be the same, maybe they mated earlier, she just isn't comfortable
enough yet to start the process. In Feb I noticed my temps were about 5 degrees too
low, so I put them back up and after that is when she finally ovulated, so who knows, maybe
she was 'storing' the sperm until the optimum time and temps were available... just
my theory.

Since her shed did take a long time, I would say your girl is 'possibly gravid' and leave it
at that, wait the 105 or so days and hope for the best. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] That's what I'm doing! GOOD LUCK!
-April
[addsig]

	Heterozygous Heterozygous - the animal carries the gene for a genetic trait but does not outwardly demonstrate the trait. Example: A boa that is het for albino looks normal but carries the albino gene. When it is bred to another het for albino boa or an albino boa, a percentage of the offspring will be albino.

	Female Female

[hisba]

Oh yeah forgot to say, both of my females went into a shed after the male was put in
(the albino one month after male introduction, my other female, 2 weeks after male introduction)
[addsig]

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[Vegetatoboaotaku]

The plot thickens! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img]
For right around a month I was convinced she was pregnant... she acted pregnant anyhow.... didn't look as fat as is possible... but im ok with that... then two weeks ago i stuck the male she supposedly bred with and a younger smaller male in with her and both started courting her... *hits head on wall* i had to go off to a wedding at the time so i couldn't watch them further... i figured she was just fat not pregnant and that was that.... and she was getting courted at last... but then when i cam back from the weekend away the snakes were sitting in different hide boxes doing nothng... both males went blue so i hoped and prayed that's what was holding them back... they shed a few days ago... but still no courting...
so either the males are confused, the female is confused or im confused.... either way the confusion is driving me bonkers...
either way im glad i built a baby rack... best to be prepared i suppose...

going to seperate the males out and then reintroduce them in a week maybe do some voodoo magic to call upon the fertility gods to assist me in my endevor, but with my luck... the snakes'll start dancing or do something similarly rediculous...
[addsig]

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[hisba]

So, you're coming up on the July 10th date, are you *sure* she's not gravid?
IMO males will court, but it doesn't always mean the female is ready or able to be bred,
males will court other males sometimes, I think they are just horny lil devils.. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
So, what makes you think she's not gravid? How does she look? Is the skin loose and
wrinkled around the head and neck area? I would suggest removing the males and
giving her at least until july 15th before knowing for sure there's no babies in there...
When was the last time she ate?
[addsig]

	In My Opinon IMO = In My Opinion and IMHO = In My Honest Opinion

[JuliusSqueezer]

Al lot of females will give themselves a year off too whether you feel she is snapped back into breeding shape or not. On avg I would guess most breeder female boas can be counted on every other year for a clutch. If you do have one of those that breeds a couple of years in a row, you would be doing a kind thing to give her a rest now and then [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] I don't powerfeed so it takes my girls a good while to put the weight back on after birthing babies. So I am looking for every other year out of my girls and don't ever plan on asking for more than that out of any of them. My biggest amazon tree boa did plump up and breed again 14 months after breeding the last time. She is due around the end of October. Her last clutch was born christmas day (christmas before last) Most were halloween babies. This year she bred with a christmas phase male and is due around haloween! Maybe I am on to something here lol
[addsig]

[Vegetatoboaotaku]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> are you *sure* she's not gravid? </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm of course not sure at all....
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>So, what makes you think she's not gravid? </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
Well the courting made me wonder... and because i hadn't seen courting much at all in the past 8 months... i figured she decided she was ready and she was just a fat lazy feeder for all before and that was it... And this was breeding with gusto... and since both males were interested it made me second guess....


Alright figured I'd make this easier to swallow... the signs and or lack there of....
Pregger signs----Seen them?

Heat conservation position---sometimes (but then it could be just coiling up?)
twists----nope (only did this when she ovulated last year, didn't see ovulation this year)
pre-ov swell---- missed it or it didn't happen?
ovulation---- missed it or it didn't happen?
heavy drinking---- not as much as last year (but then my move last summer made it so that i see her cage less often, so i could be just missing this and many other things)
rediculously long shed cycle----yup, almost a month long
change in feeding habits---- yup, takes her forever to eat and she stopped coiling
change in temperment---- yup, grumpy but not evil
enlargment of posterior as opposed to anterior --- yup but nothing outrageous like last year (just fat???)

Actually I really made no super special efforts to have them breed this year (like last year). I figured if the female was ready then she would get preggers again and if she wasn't then she wouldn't... i really wasn't terribly concerned.. and as a matter o' fact i kept them on a normal feeding/cleaning schedule... so neither of them lost any weight over the breeding season...

I'd really like to get a vet to give me some clear answers... She's either retarded or pregnant.... *shrugs*
[addsig]

[Ritchie]

I am no expert...but I think she is gravid
[addsig]

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	Gravid Gravid term used in biology to describe the condition of a female oviparous when carrying young internally.