Recreational breeding- should it be discouraged?

[wreckwriter]

I realize this may be a controversial topic but I would hope it can be discussed reasonably.

A series of threads on another forum got me thinking on this yesterday and I'd like to get some opinions on whether I'm off base or not with the general feelings of the herp community. Here's how it went....

In one a thread person was asking a very basic feeding question regarding her boa, which is her first and only snake. The question was answered correctly and reasonably by several people. In another thread, active at the same time, people were giving this same person advice on breeding this same snake. Most of the responses were supportive of her doing so.

Personally I think an inexperienced person should be actively discouraged from breeding any type of animal. As for why I think it isn't usually done, a couple reasons...

I think that the easy availability of breeding info and breeders talking openly in forums geared towards beginning herpers is, in some ways, encouraging irresponsible breeding. I understand that people are making a living breeding and selling herps and that they need to showcase their animals and projects in order to make money but I feel that in some ways this may be hurting their profit margin, and this hobby, in the long run.

I think the larger part of the problem is the desire of some people to be supportive in all situations. I think sometimes the good of the animals is being overlooked for the "warm and fuzzy feelings" factor.

My answer to this would be that breeding info be held closer among the more experienced people and that inexperienced herpers becoming breeders be discouraged rather than encouraged. New breeders should come into the hobby through mentoring from experienced breeders, not through trial and error from info they gained from people on Internet forums.

Just my opinion, would like to hear others.

[JuliusSqueezer]

I'm with ya...Even more so with things that lay eggs...geez, How many threads have we had with someone breeding something, actually getting eggs dropped and then come asking how to incubate them? How many people are in here freaked out about getting something to eat or how to heat a cage...but are letting these animals breed? That's great. Don't have the basics down on what you got and now you want to compound that by nursing mom through gestation and then birth or hatching...and all that's the easy part. Getting any fresh litter or clutch of babies started off right is NEVER going to be a walk in the park.

[blkcrochunter]

I kind of feel the same way, I have been into herps for some years now. I dont think I'm ready for the breeding thing yet, I have alot to learn. I think I might give it a try in the next four or five years. But I'm the type who doesnt like to alllow much room for error, on that note I will do alot of research. The local pet shop owner I do business with breeds all the snakes in his shop. I'm in there religiously every week taking notes, and he doesnt hesitate to help inform you on the process. Also I'm not afraid to ask questions, because a closed mouth does not get fed. Where I think some go wrong is they look at their snakes as breeders before pets. They should be looked at as pets before anything else. Just my 2 cents.

[wreckwriter]

and after that there's the question of what to do with 20 or so boas which leads...... you know.

[LoraJean]

I completely agree with you. Someone needs time to get to know and love the animal before they breed it and bring many more of them into the world. Money and Fun should not just be the reason. If your only doing it for the money, you can become irresponsible with whom you sell the babies to, thus hurting the breed. If you do it because you truly love the animal and want to proliferate your specific pet I think its something that should be thought over considerably and approached with great respect and care for the animal.

[blkcrochunter]

Thats another thing people dont consider, is being stuck with so many snakes. Thats alot of mouths to feed, not considering the snakes you already have.

[wreckwriter]

Originally Posted by blkcrochunter

Thats another thing people dont consider, is being stuck with so many snakes. Thats alot of mouths to feed, not considering the snakes you already have.

I think they see that snakes sell well and for lots of $, but they fail to realize that the ones that sell quickly and at good prices are coming from professional breeders with established reputations who have been doing this for years and have thousands invested in their animals and facilities, not from someone who got their snake and 20 gallon tank from PetSmart. Next thing you know you have baby snakes starved, released, or given away to neighbors who also have no idea how to care for them.

[JuliusSqueezer]

I think the biggest problem here is that people get in this hobby and just assume that breeding is what it's all about. That it's their civic duty to breed what they have with no regard to whether there is a market other than dumping them at the nearest petstore for 10 bucks each...High end morphs bring a hefty price. Someone new gets in this hobby and sees that pretty pied ball python and understandibly wants one too...but really can't justify the price unless they too can breed it and turn a profit. Little do they know...these things take years and there are far better ways to invest money for a much quicker and more profitable return. Or maybe they want in on all the ooohs and awwwws attention when someone posts a litter of newborns/hatchlings. I have to admit that it's extremely exciting to find a fresh litter but it's also heartbreaking what happens next if you aren't prepared and don't have it all planned out with what to do with them.

	Morph A morph is a color or pattern variation that is proven to be genetic. Common morphs include albino, anerythristic, gentically striped, Hypomelanistic, and many others. Morphs also include combinations of simple traits such as "Sunglow" which is Albino and Hypomelanistic. These traits may be recessive traits, co-dominant traits, dominant traits, or created through selective breeding (ie Pastel).

[trinitywolf]

I agree with what's being said here 100%. I have seen the same kind of thing happen on the internet many times. This may come off as kinda snotty, but when I see people on a board asking question after question about husbandy (basic) and questions about breeding, I point them in the direction of research. I just can't see helping someone put two snakes together to make lots of little snakes, when they can't take care of the one or two they have now. It just doesn't make sense.

[hisba]

I offer breeding advice when someone asks because other people did that for me and that (along with lots of reading/re-reading) is what allowed me to have my first successful litters, so I feel I can 'give back' some of what I got. I do always try to make sure I stress maturity in boas before being bred (meaning, yes you have to wait at least 4-5 years to breed a female, not what most people want to hear..) and I do always try to stress doing research and reading books.

I agree that there are a lot of people who just breed for $$ or that think they can get rich quick, it is very tempting and when you see the big guys with their 6-15K snakes, people think 'why not me too?'. I agree that comments should be made to make people realize it is not that easy and well, when it comes right down to having 40 baby snakes to feed and clean in additional to the rest of the colleciton, it really does become a part time job and expensive to boot (speaking from experience here) and as others have said, there really is not a huge market waiting to buy up normal boas. I had mine for sale for ages, lots of people express interest but very few actually buy, I ended up wholesaling quite a few to a local reptile store. Now.. what will happen to those little ones? Hopefully they got good homes, but it went out of my hands the minute the store got them, which is hard in itself to come to grips with (and part of the reason I haven't bred anything since 2003). Did I make any money? NOPE! I am lucky if I broke even having to house the babies and keep feeding them for so long.

I personaly think that the whole experience and wonderment of a successful breeding is something that is amazing and I don't think we should tell people they should not experience it at all, I do agree that some heartfelt talking needs to be done tho so that people understand what they are really getting into.
just throwing out my $.02 like I always do.

[wreckwriter]

Originally Posted by hisba

I personaly think that the whole experience and wonderment of a successful breeding is something that is amazing and I don't think we should tell people they should not experience it at all, I do agree that some heartfelt talking needs to be done tho so that people understand what they are really getting into.
just throwing out my $.02 like I always do.

You seem to look at it differently than I do. I put the wellfare of the animals first, you apparently put the enjoyment of the people first. Just a different way of looking at things I guess.