Neurological problem...?

Mad Snake Keeper · #1 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 07:01 AM

I've had my female BCI Zeezee since September. I purchased her from Dave Colling at the Sacramento expo. She is almost a year old now. She is my only boa. I have not acquired any snakes since the expo. I quarantined her for 3 months.

Ever since I first brought her home, she's been a bit... wobbly; unsteady. She's very excitable and loves being handled, so that's what I took it for at the time. However, recently I've been noticing this more often. Of course, being the paranoid person I am, IBD instantly came to mind. However, she can right herself when flipped upside down, has never refused a meal, seems to have a good strike, no mouth rot, regurgitation, or any other problems. When I hold her by the end of her tail, she doesn't "spin" and is able to pull herself up to perch on my wrist, but she sways and seems to have a lack of balance. I've never seen her stargaze, though when I handle her sometimes she will sit on my hand with her head upside down.

Like this. (Lmk if the link doesn't work.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlirSiZmVf0
(At the beginning is her upside-down head, and at 2:25 you can get a good view of her swaying.)

BUT, she can right herself, and other than the sporadic movements, she seems to be in pristine health.

My pythons are all in perfect health (with the exception the short-tail's regurge last week, but I am very nearly positive that was due to a combination of a bit too much to eat, a bit too much handling a bit too soon after the meal, and temps that were a bit too cool. Besides, isn't regurgitation one of the only typical IBD symptoms that does not present in pythons?)

So I'm doubting IBD. First of all, she's been unbalanced for six months now... I know that boas can be long-term carriers, but once symptoms are presented, isn't it true that their health decreases very rapidly (resulting in death a month or so after symptoms first present)? This is the general conclusion I've come to after reading many articles on IBD. Tell me if I'm mistaken.

What do you guys think? Am I just a first-time boa owner overreacting? Could it be IBD? Possibly another neurological problem? Cash is tight, but if need be I'll find a way to get her to our vet for blood workups and whatever else she may need, as always.

Any input would be much appreciated!

Icicle · #2 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 07:09 AM

I'm not going to preach or anything.

But a vet visit is good idea.

Icicle · #3 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 07:10 AM

I'm not going to preach or anything.

But a vet visit is good idea.

Keri · #4 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 07:17 AM

It says the video is "private" and won't let me watch

Mad Snake Keeper · #5 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icicle

I'm not going to preach or anything.

But a vet visit is good idea.

Okay. I will most likely end up bringing her in, at least to have our vet take a look.

Quote:

It says the video is "private" and won't let me watch

Ah. Does this work?
YouTube - MOV08954.MPG
(Again, skip to 2:24 to see her swaying.)

midtx350z · #6 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 07:27 AM

Wow... never seen anything like that before. It doesn't look like the normal IBD symptoms but you never know... There's something definitely not right, like Icicle said though, vet visit is the best way to go. Have you contacted the seller?

Mad Snake Keeper · #7 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midtx350z

Wow... never seen anything like that before. It doesn't look like the normal IBD symptoms but you never know... There's something definitely not right, like Icicle said though, vet visit is the best way to go. Have you contacted the seller?

Yes, I just emailed Dave a few hours ago. I'll wait for a reply, then probably bring her to the vet.

midtx350z · #8 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Snake Keeper

Yes, I just emailed Dave a few hours ago. I'll wait for a reply, then probably bring her to the vet.

I wish you the best of luck.

Icicle · #9 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 07:46 AM

There is something definitely wrong

Keri · #10 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 07:53 AM

Ohhh,... yeah, that is really weird. Does IBD just "hang out" for that long? could be some other neuro disorder

midtx350z · #11 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 07:58 AM

It's kind of creepy the way he puts his head upside down. I feel sorry for whatever he's going through... who knows what goes on in their little heads.

Maybe some sort of disorder that makes him not know if he's right side up? Then again, it's only his head not the rest of his body right?

-Jim- · #12 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 11:11 AM

Where is she kept? You said that its been going on since you brought her home? Have you checked CO levels in the area? Is there a water heater or a furnace near her? What about storage? Are there any kind of pesticide stored near her? Or paint cans, solvents, or anything else that shouldn't be? She acts like she's high. I'd take a close look at her environment, maybe she's sniffing something that you are not aware of. Have you tried moving her to another level of the house or a different room?

jbd123 · #13 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 02:10 PM

midtx350z,
I have a boa that is just like that. I have had her for over a year. A few weeks after I got her, she started showing these symptoms. I took her to the vet multiple times, had multiple tests, even started her on an antibiotic treatment. She never declined in health (in fact, she is my BEST eater and is HUGE compared to other boas in my collection that are her age), and her 'wobble' is starting to decrease with age/growth as well.
My business partner has her sister, and she shows no health issues. However, some of her brothers and sisters (very few, but some of them) showed similar symptoms.
I believe it could be a genetic flaw. However, please take her to a vet, get every test done you can, just to be safe.
I know Peaches (my boa) is not a carrier of IBD, because she got a mite outbreak a few months back, and only 4 snakes 'joined' her in the outbreak (I keep my collection in sections in my snake room so that if mite outbreaks happen only that section gets effected, typically), two of those snakes being blood pythons. I got rid of the mites, and it has been over 3 months now. No symptoms, no regurges, everyones eating fine.
There's a possibily your boa has some sort of a tumor, or perhaps a virus that may not have spread (yet) or may be she is the only one that has it. There are so many other possibilities besides IBD, but you want to make sure that whatever she has will not effect her 'value of life', so to speak, or put your other animals in danger.
Good luck...

jbd123 · #14 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 02:15 PM

Oh, not to mention I have purchased from Dave before, he has top-notch animals. I'm sure that if something is really wrong with her he will make it right.

Alex · #15 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 02:32 PM

I have a male BCI who shows very similar sypmtoms. Like jdb, I had tests done on him. The only problem found was a RI that is now gone. He only does this in his cage. As soon as he sees me, he stops and acts completely normal. He's been doing this since November, and I got him back in...April? As of now, he's just a "special" snake.
Regardless, I'd take yours to the vet and keep a close eye on her

KaiYudSai · #16 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 04:23 PM

There is something very wrong...... but it is very hard to tell the cause.... So many problems cause these sort of neurological symptoms, varying from parasiting infections like ameobaisis and cryptosporidium or a bacterial or fungal infection...... it could also be from some sort of toxicity..... or the worst case scenario, it could be the beginning stages of IBD(this is very rare and unlikely though)...

Did this behaviour just start?? has it slowly gotten worse?? Quaranting should be your first response... and start practicing a handwashing regimen..... then get your boa to an EXPERIENCED herp vet..... the average dog and cat vet wont have any idea what's going on with this boa....

GOod luck

have you

gotten any new reptiles recently?
been to a reptile show and handled other reptiles?
recently had pest control spray in your dwelling?

Mad Snake Keeper · #17 (**permalink**) 03-20-2010, 12:33 AM

Thanks for the input, everyone!

No toxins in or around our house. She's been kept in three different rooms (all bedrooms) throughout the past six months. No pesticides, no painting, not even any strong cleaning fluids. I also have frogs and dubia roaches in the same room, so if there were somehow pesticides or toxins in the house, I imagine they would also be affected.

No, I haven't so much as seen another reptile since the September expo (where I got her from). I did purchase a few baby tree frogs, but they seem to be doing great and have never come in contact with her.

I just received a reply from Dave. He says that a few of his other boas have acted similarly and that they had always behaved as such, hadn't worsened, and are doing great. For the time being, I'm going to watch her very closely, and if anything new comes up or if things get worse I'll run her straight to the vet. Yes, we have an excellent reptile vet nearby who I've been taking my animals to for years.

HERPHAPPY · #18 (**permalink**) 03-20-2010, 01:13 AM

Hope nothing further happens...doesn't look right, and glad you have an excellent herp vet available in case? Like others already said, could be a variety of causes...??? At least Dave admitted some of his others have similar issues...keep us posted!

LarM · #19 (**permalink**) 03-20-2010, 06:38 AM

First of all after reading many articles and discussing this IBD topic with my herp Vet.

I've found that the head tremor neurological issues people
always associate with IBD are almost rare

Also severe shedding issues are quite common (inability to shed)

Basically the most common symptom is wasting away bad
appetite , which leads to weight loss and dehydration
and eventually death

There are many factors that can cause Neuro issues in Boas

Heat or too high of heat and Dehydration 2 major factors

Jim covers several other good points that could lead to Nearo issues

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Jim-

Where is she kept? You said that its been going on since you brought her home? Have you checked CO levels in the area? Is there a water heater or a furnace near her? What about storage? Are there any kind of pesticide stored near her? Or paint cans, solvents, or anything else that shouldn't be? She acts like she's high. I'd take a close look at her environment, maybe she's sniffing something that you are not aware of. Have you tried moving her to another level of the house or a different room?

I agree she does have a slight Neuro issue of some type

Its not extreme and she is otherwise healthy appearing

There are also some parasites that can cause Neuro issues I believe

This would be something to discuss with a very experienced exotics herp Vet

The Vet could best direct you on what tests or treatment might be effective

I've heard of a Neuro situation that was successfully treated using
Metronidazole brand name Flagyl

Most definitely do not try to self treat or medicate the Boa though

A Herp Vet should be seen and consulted for proper treatment !

By the way did you contact Dave initially about this months ago before coming on an open forum with the issue ?

I would hate to see any good persons name become tarnished with out ever
having a chance to address the issue from the beginning months ago

I understand you are looking for help for your Boa but there are
always many things you must take into consideration when
speaking on an open public forum

Hope all goes well for you and your Boa

HERPHAPPY · #20 (**permalink**) 08-10-2010, 01:06 AM

Hey, whatever happened with this snake???

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