Regurgitation Syndrome

[Tom]

Here is a link to Melissa Kaplan's Vomiting/Regurgitation in Reptiles page. There is some good info and links on this page you just have to read thought it to fine what pertains to you. Vomiting/Regurgitation in Reptiles I know most if not all reptile owners and myself don't like Melissa Kaplan's views on ownership of reptile but she does have some good info we all can learn from.

Here is some info from my care sheet on my website. There is more info about feeding BCC, BCI and BCA at this link. MyCarePage

If your boa regurgitates, DO NOT FEED IT AGAIN FOR AT LEAST 2 WEEKS. I can’t stress this enough. You must give its stomachs time to settle down and repair itself. Think about it, when you throw up, do you really want to eat right away? Neither do they. Instinctually, they may eat, but that’s all it is, an instinct. And feeding them will do much more harm than good. Usually, they throw up the new meal as well and begin to dehydrate. If they regurgitate often enough, it begins to develop into a syndrome and it can be fatal. After the initial two week waiting period to feed the next meal, feed a smaller than normal prey item. For example, if you feed large rats, feed a medium or even better, a small rat instead. Then wait another two weeks and feed another small rat. Another two weeks and another small rat and if all goes well, you can step up to a medium rat two weeks later and then another medium rat 12 days later and then a large rat 12 days later and then you can resume a normal feeding schedule while keeping a careful eye on your boa. These feeding schedules have been constructed with the optimal health and longevity of your boa in mind. Slight deviation from this may be acceptable depending on the individual snake.

Take care
Tom

	Boa Constrictor Constrictor Red Tail Boa Constrictor (Boa constictor constrictor). Refers to "true" red tail boas such as the Guyana and Suriname locales.

	Boa Constrictor Imperator Boa Constrictor (Boa constrictor imperator). Most common is the Colombian Boa.

[Rust316]

Originally Posted by VexalUntil

While the external morphological differences won't apply to this thread, the internal differences would be really interesting to try and determine. Why is it that BCCs seem to have "chronic regurg syndrome"? If Colombian BCIs are separated from Brazilian, Suri and Guyana BCCs by a relatively short distance (and in theory genetic difference) why is it that the two subspecies have different reactions to feedings? Anyone know of any papers analyzing the gasto-intestinal differences in BCC vs BCI??
I have very very limited experience feeding 100% known juvenile BCCs (a handful of baby Suris a work), but I have pretty good experience with "North Brazilian Redtails." (It's in quotes because the jury is still out whether or not they actually are pure N. Brazilians. For all intents and purposes let's assume they're pure.) I have noticed that from the litters of 5 females since 2005, roughly half to three quarters will regurg weaned mice when not supplied with heat. When supplied with heat (belly heat in a rack system reaching 90F), still a small portion (10%) will regurg when fed weaned mice. Now we typically just record that they regurg then feed again the next week or in two weeks depending on availability of mice. Usually we try and feed smaller prey to those that regurg, but sometimes they get fed the same size as previously offered. But either way 9 times out of 10 they all eat that next meal! Sometimes they regurg again, sometimes not. I wish I was more precise, but I'm trying to remember and generalize over 3 years of feedings. Yes a few die, but the vast majority survive even after regurging more than a few times.
Now the data from this year is a bit screwy because we made some BCI x N. Braz hybrids. We had two litters of BCCxBCI and three litters of BCC (with the crosses still out numbering the pures) for a total of approximately 70 snakes. This year they have been on heat since being setup on the rack, which happens right after their first shed. I've been the one feeding them all for the most part. Even the hybrids will regurg, but all seem to be famished and ready to eat anything the next week after regurging. Usually they'll eat great the first three or so meals (fat fuzzy mice to mice with their eyes barely open) and then start regurging when we start using weaned mice. Then they'll go a while without regurging, then have one or two regurgs, then eat without regurging, etc. They eat every time they are offered food, whether one or two weeks between offerings. Very very rarely do we have any that refuse a meal after they've started eating. Granted we had roughly 7 that refused for the first month after shedding, but they eventually started eating. And some of these that initially refused meals have gone on to be regurgers and others have never regurged. Of all the litters both crosses and pure, I think we had 2-3 that died and three that are pretty thin and weak, but still want to eat. Now I need to mention that not everyone regurges, there are still snakes that have never regurged a meal and are litter mates to those that have regurged. Additionally both the crosses and the pures have regurged.
I see what you're saying about increasing the time between feedings to decrease the stress to the system. I fully agree and in a perfect world I would have waited longer on the snakes I just mentioned. I just wanted to share my experience and show an example of crosses having the "regurgitation syndrome." Now the question I pose is why do some boas in a litter regurg when their littermates don't when they are all fed basically the same size meal? Or also, since BCIs don't have the "regurgitation syndrome" shouldn't crossing a BCC and BCI result in a decrease or extinction of the behavior?

This is an interesting post, and I think it raises a lot of issues. First, as a general rule, BCC do not have "chronic" regurgitation problems. What they do have is less tolerance for keeper error. Keeper error may be as simple as applying BCI husbandry practices to young BCC. At least, that's what I did when I first started working with BCC and it led to horrible results. If you understand the unique needs of young BCC (i.e. correct temp range and gradient, privacy, limited handling, less frequent feedings, smaller size food items, etc.), then you should rarely experience regurgitation issues. Even the best of us make mistakes though. Because of that, I started this thread and basically revealed the methodology that we used last year to help some animals pull through regurgitation problems that we caused for them. Looking back on it now, our issues were temp related and had nothing to do with over-feeding, over-handling, improper caging and so on. We just had the temps too low in a couple of our tubs and we should have either raised the temps or fed less. That caused the problem, and we solved the problem by correcting our husbandry issues. Then the question became....what do we do now to bring these animals back around? The reduced feeding plan that I highlighted in my first post is how we handled their care and both animals are thriving today.

Here's what I think led to the regurgitation issues with your young BCC. First, your temps were off. Second, you were probably over-feeding them and some animals couldn't tolerate it. Third, you didn't tweak your game plan after they started having issues. If you corrected your temp and feeding issues, and slowed down the meal stream on the weaker animals, they probably would have pulled through for you.

It can take a while to get it right with young BCC. But once you do, it is very rewarding.

	Boa Constrictor Constrictor Red Tail Boa Constrictor (Boa constictor constrictor). Refers to "true" red tail boas such as the Guyana and Suriname locales.

	Boa Constrictor Imperator Boa Constrictor (Boa constrictor imperator). Most common is the Colombian Boa.

	Suriname Redtail Boa Red Tail Boa Constrictor (Boa constrictor constrictor) from the locale of Suriname. Considered to be a "True" Red Tail.

[VexalUntil]

Rust - I put "chronic regurgitation syndrome" in quotes for the reasons you said. I just forgot to mention it. Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. When you mentioned "they might have pulled through" well that's just it, all of them except those two to five (forgot to check exactly) that died seem to be doing fine. A few will regurg now and again, but will keep the next week's meal down. We sold most of them, leaving only a handful left so it's kinda hard to draw conclusions on what we've sold.

Originally Posted by VexalUntil

Now the question I pose is why do some boas in a litter regurg when their littermates don't when they are all fed basically the same size meal? Or also, since BCIs don't have the "regurgitation syndrome" shouldn't crossing a BCC and BCI result in a decrease or extinction of the behavior?

Let me restate the first question: why do some boas in a litter regurg when their litter mates don't when they are all fed basically the same size meal and the snakes do not differ greatly in body girth and weight? Both questions are for the most part rhetorical.

And like I said before I still find it really fascinating that BCI and BCC have a relatively small distance between their ranges and it's assumed they have a small genetic difference (if anyone has a reference on boa genetics send me a PM please) and yet BCCs have such a sensitive GI track while BCIs don't.

	Boa Constrictor Constrictor Red Tail Boa Constrictor (Boa constictor constrictor). Refers to "true" red tail boas such as the Guyana and Suriname locales.

	Boa Constrictor Imperator Boa Constrictor (Boa constrictor imperator). Most common is the Colombian Boa.

[Rust316]

Originally Posted by VexalUntil

Rust - I put "chronic regurgitation syndrome" in quotes for the reasons you said. I just forgot to mention it. Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. When you mentioned "they might have pulled through" well that's just it, all of them except those two to five (forgot to check exactly) that died seem to be doing fine. A few will regurg now and again, but will keep the next week's meal down. We sold most of them, leaving only a handful left so it's kinda hard to draw conclusions on what we've sold.



Let me restate the first question: why do some boas in a litter regurg when their litter mates don't when they are all fed basically the same size meal and the snakes do not differ greatly in body girth and weight? Both questions are for the most part rhetorical.

And like I said before I still find it really fascinating that BCI and BCC have a relatively small distance between their ranges and it's assumed they have a small genetic difference (if anyone has a reference on boa genetics send me a PM please) and yet BCCs have such a sensitive GI track while BCIs don't.

I can only guess at the answers to these questions so here it goes......There is a mountain range that seperates BCI from BCC. Perhaps BCC live in the more humid, rain forest environment. Just a guess though.

With respect to the differences in the litters, my guess is that some of your babies are not as tolerant as others. Not all survive in the wild. With that said, captivity is not the "wild". I think that something is off on your approach because the babies shouldn't give back their meals.

Do you work at one of the reptile shops in G-ville? I'll stop by and talk to you about it next time I am in town (if you want).

	Boa Constrictor Constrictor Red Tail Boa Constrictor (Boa constictor constrictor). Refers to "true" red tail boas such as the Guyana and Suriname locales.

	Boa Constrictor Imperator Boa Constrictor (Boa constrictor imperator). Most common is the Colombian Boa.

[razeraze]

I am going to say it is directly related to stress and temperatures. I know every one is going to argue with me, but I have seen every reptile from monitors to anacondas to crocodilians regurgitate and every time it was not size or frequency of meal, but cool surface temperatures or undesired basking spots.

To digest any meal properly the reptile has to find a hot spot where it feels safe to lay on and it needs to not be scared or removed from this spot. The cooler the spot the longer the basking time. So a snake that basks at 90F will bask longer than one that basks at 100F. The best bet is offer multiple basking spots, of different temperatures and let the reptile choose.

	regurgitate Throw up. Reptiles will regurge when they feel they are in danger or if they have some sort of health issue. If your reptile has regurgitated his/her food please seek help!