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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2006, 10:00 PM
PSPEC PSPEC is offline
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Designer BCI boas appear to have BCC in their blood?

I have been searching the classifieds and forums for pictures of designer boas like hypos, salmons, jungles, circlebacks, ladder tails etc.

After lots of looking around, it appears to me that most of these so called pattern morphs, really just have BCC crossed into the lineage somewhere along the line. Notice how just about all the hypo or salmon boas have that weird un-natural pattern where the saddles are almost gone and look like little bow ties... Looks to me like a thin pattered BCC is bred into that line somewhere. I saw some pictures of a peruvian x colombian cross just now and they are remarkably similar to "circle back" colombians.

Based on what I've been seeing over the last five or so years I think its fair to say that people have been crossing BCC into the colombians to give them certain looks like adding some extra red color and making the pattern appear special, and then marketing them as really nice BCI morphs even though they are hybrids. I would like to add that I personally have no problems with cross breeding as I am now trying to cross a BCC peruvian with an Abino BCI to introduce new blood into the albino line and hopefully more color and better paterns. But my crosses will be sold as crosses.

This is just a theory of mine, and I don't have any proof of it. What are your thoughts?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2007, 12:40 AM
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Sojourn Sojourn is offline
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In general terms, most of the Bcc X Morph crosses will be accurately represented as such, because in being crosses they hold a higher value. And there is no doubt at all that there is some muddling of the line in almost any morph boa nowadays. Circle backs and ladder tails occur within Bci as well as Bcc ranges in the wild. The thin bowtie saddles you refer to in hypos are without a doubt related to the gene that makes them different from the wild-type boa, and not from a line bred trait, as True Panamanian and Central American hypos imported directly from the wild have them, and direct f1 offspring from those wild caught animals will almost always carry the trait.

Incidentally, if you want to make hypos without those telltale bowties, I would recommend using an orange-tail over a salmon, as the salmon line seems to have more influence to produce the bowties. This is my experience with breeding a certain female with both lines. Many of the orange-tail hypos from the first time I bred her, came out with very blocky patterns, similar to their mom. But when I bred a salmon hypo to her, all the hypo babies had very distinct bowties.

As far as I know there is NO Bcc anywhere in the Jungle lineage, and if someone were to make this cross it would surely be labeled as such. But even if there is Bcc in the line the jungle trait is definitely proven dominant, and not line bred.

LOTS of origins of so called pastel lines are surely the product of Bci and Bcc crosses that made their way into the pet trade, labeled only as normals, Colombians, or just generic red tails with no past history. There are some known and proven pastel lines as well that I believe have a foundation in Bcc, but there is and will be no way to prove it, so we go with what we know.

My .02.....

Jesse Van Atta

Last edited by Sojourn : 01-01-2007 at 12:47 AM. Reason: typos
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Old 01-01-2007, 12:45 AM
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Actually, the salmons probably all derived from BCS, not BCC. Naturally occuring wild type Pearl Island boas can't be distinguished from most Salmon "BCI" other than it's illegal to export them from their native range now
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Old 01-02-2007, 05:50 PM
Andy_G Andy_G is offline
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The salmons derrived from both panama and nicaraguan hypo BCI, nothing to do with BCS.

I really wouldn't be too surprised if BCC blood is in with the jungles...who knows.
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Old 01-02-2007, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_G View Post
The salmons derrived from both panama and nicaraguan hypo BCI, nothing to do with BCS.

I really wouldn't be too surprised if BCC blood is in with the jungles...who knows.

Many herpetologists belive that the boas in Panama and the boas off the coast on Pearl Island are all B.c.sabogae. Whatever you buy into as to the labels...that's where the gene came from so the "nothing to do with" part is highly inaccurate. A typical sabogae and a typical "salmon" can not be distinguished.
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Old 01-02-2007, 06:34 PM
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