Question about parasites in ETB

Reticu-Lady · #1 (**permalink**) 03-12-2002, 10:31 AM

Ok, I have seen something very distressing to me, in a pet shop not too far from here in which I used to be somewhat impressed with, there is this poor pathetic ETB. The first few times I saw him(?) there, he looked healthy and pretty. Since then, he has lost an enormous amount of weight, no longer 'perches' on his stick and looks horrid. The pet shop owner said the vet diagnosed him with a "parasite with a long name." He claims the vet said it was a parasite native to the snake's habitat (I am now assuming he is WC) [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img] Anyway, the pet store owner also claims there is no treatment for this parasite and that the vet advised just letting him be to see if he will snap out of it. His cage is clean and the snake seems to have moved when I went back a few days later, but he had no water. Is there really a parasite for which there is no cure and is this the 'standard' treatment for this parasite? I would think that if nothing else, he needs to be soaked in electrolites or something. Is there a way I could talk the owner out of this guy and try to save him? He looks pretty far gone. The owner said he was eating at first, but since then hasn't (says maybe a month). [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img] I am heartbroken just thinking about him. Any ideas? Please? [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif[/img]
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eddie · #2 (**permalink**) 03-12-2002, 01:46 PM

IDEA!

Call or go by the store again and tell them that it's problem has your curiosity stirred up.
Then find out who the vet is so you can give him/her a call and find out exactly what the
parasite is and if there are treatments for it.

Then if there is hope ( or not...) for the snake, ask the store if they would give it up so that it can have a fair shot at life with you, since you can give it more attention than they are able at the moment and if it is incurable, that you would feel horrible about not giving it a few comfortable/ happy last days.

If you do manage to bring it home with you, then I urge you to use all precautions you can to prevent an accidental spreading to your established collection. Just in case.

Good luck with it coming home with you and extra good luck that it can recover.
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Princenez · #3 (**permalink**) 03-12-2002, 03:43 PM

The only parasite I know of that doesn't have any known "cure" in reptiles is cryptosporidosis. If crypto has been positively identified the snake should most likely be euthanized.

jay
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Reticu-Lady · #4 (**permalink**) 03-12-2002, 09:44 PM

Ok, another question, if I manage to take him out of there, should I just take him to the vet and have him humanely put down? How do they do that? I know how with mammals, but never seen a snake done. In mammals, it's an IV injection unless it's a small kitten, rodent, etc which will get either a cardiac puncture (ewww!) or intraparitoneal. What sort of quarantine would be required if I should manage to talk him out of it, separate room, handwashing, anything else?
I am going to try to talk to my husband and see if he will let me try to get this guy. I don't know if I will be able to help him live, but I can help him 'pass' more humanely if needed.
Thanks [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif[/img]

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hisba · #5 (**permalink**) 03-12-2002, 10:00 PM

yes, the vet can use a shot to put the snake down humanely just like they do for mammals.
If it's cryto.. I believe that is the most humane thing. I wonder if the crypto has spread
to other animals in his shop?? If the snake is out in the open (public) then it could be
infecting his whole store! (doesn't crypto also effect lizards?) Poor ETB. I would see if
you can get in touch with the vet first, and verify this is what is wrong with the snake before
taking it home... you don't want to chance infecting your other pets... [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img]
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eddie · #6 (**permalink**) 03-12-2002, 10:04 PM

Prevention of spread,

Quarentine in a different room,
Don't share food items between it and others, feed it last, if it doesn't eat, dispose of the food.(away from inside house)

Do all of its handling etc. AFTER you finish with the other snakes.

During handling, cleaning, watering and any time you go into its home,wear a smock and gloves (latex) to prevent any unwanted hitch hikers(parasites, eggs) from getting on your clothes, under nails etc.

After handling, etc. remove and dispose of the gloves, and remove the outer wear before leaving the room. If possible wash your hands past the wrists before leaving the room, but DEFFINATELY before getting near the other herps you have.

In case it comes down to this, the method is 'pithing' which if you are squemish in the slightest bit, should be done by your vet. It involves making a disruption in the central nervous system, by driving a needle type object into the brain cavity of the animal.
If it does come down to this, then even afterwards, I would be leary of buying anything at that store. No telling how many there could be infected, etc.

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#7 (**permalink**) 03-12-2002, 10:51 PM

I would never bring home something with an incurable parasite and risk the rest of my collection. I hate to sound heartless, but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

I highly doubt he'll let you just have him. Do NOT buy him, you're just encouraging the guy to get more. Maybe if this one dies and he loses $300, he'll think twice before he gets another.

Try and find out the vet's name and check on the diagnosis. If it's crypto, then see if you can get the snake put down.
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JuliusSqueezer · #8 (**permalink**) 03-13-2002, 01:47 AM

9 out of 10 times when a petstore that doesn't specialize in herps gets ahold of an emerald they simply starve to death because the petstore people have no idea how or what to feed them. Emeralds can be very picky. Most will not eat until well after dark. Many will not even look at a mouse of any kind and will only eat rats. If the temps are too high or the humidity is too low...they won't eat. If the emerald is in a high traffic area of the store, he is probably stressed from all the gawkers. I highly doubt this guy actually took the snake to a vet...He probably just doesn't want to admit his ignorance.
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telefrag · #9 (**permalink**) 03-13-2002, 02:16 AM

Does anyone know if crypto can actually occur in a wild animal, I thought it was only present in captive animals.
Im sure it originated somewhere, but even a snake in the wild will succumb to crypto eventually, but most parasites dont affect the animal until it undergoes some type of physical or environmental stress.

Chances are the animal was a very debilitated before they obtained it,
if its feeding and it doesnt have cypto, there is always a chance it can turn around.

That is sad though, ETB are cool snakes.
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NYCSpeedcore · #10 (**permalink**) 03-13-2002, 02:21 AM

I have to agree with J Riley, I would never take an animal like that back to my house. Ticks, some internal parisites that can be treated... I would give it a shot. I bet 10 to 1 that Emerald is also puking, not just refusing food. Taking on something like that is just going to end up lightening your pockets and causing you heart ache. I also think you should let this one go, maybe have it put down if you like. Tell the guy to leave a hopper or rat pup in the tank over night and see what happens, and inform him of the himidity requirements... try printing out a caresheet for them and handing it to him for that matter.
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JuliusSqueezer · #11 (**permalink**) 03-13-2002, 03:50 AM

No sick animal should ever be on public display in a petstore. One of the number one requirements for successful rehab is being left alone with as little traffic as possible so they aren't stressed by snotnosed kids rapping on the glass. Even respectful people just walking by will keep them edgy and irritated when they don't feel good. So they fact that this guy has a sick emerald out for everyone to look at tells me he has no idea what he's dealing with. Please find out what the heat and humidity readings are. A very common mistake in keeping emeralds is overheating. People think that because the tropical rainforests temps are usually in the high 80s that emeralds should be kept that way too. But...up in the trees where they live, it is a good bit cooler and breezy. I keep my South american arboreals at 82 warm eide and 78ish cool side and have never had one puke or become ill.....ever. I let the humidity vary between 60-80 for the emerald....50-80 for the amazons....and the GTP I keep a little warmer and between 60-100 humidity. Emeralds are the least forgiving of temp/humidity requirements. They are also the pickiest eaters. Any little mistake in husbandry will cause any number of problems. Once an emerald begins puking...it is very hard to get them to stop. Of all the boids, they probably have the slowest metabolism too and any attempt to over feed them or feed them too often will result in heartache. A small meal every 3 weeks or so is all they need to grow to their fullest potential....and any good caresheet will agree that forgeting to feed them for an extra week or so is more a blessing than anything else.

This snake may very well have a parasite problem....it is fairly common with wild caught emeralds.....but stress and husbandry mistakes are more likely what is killing him. I can't believe even a non-herp vet wouldn't have tried panacur or flagyl. I think he just told you he took it to a vet so you wouldn't think he's a total heartless moron and he's made his own guess and is just hoping he sells it before it dies.
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Reticu-Lady · #12 (**permalink**) 03-13-2002, 10:33 AM

poor guy, he is in the display cage right in front as you walk in the store. No hides at all. When he first got him several months ago, he looked great, coiled on his stick, the owner swore to me he was eating at first, etc. As much as I want to save him, I guess I really shouldn't risk my guys, I really don't think I am able to quarantine to that extent, and I would be paranoid of my other snakes, pets and worse, the possibility of zoonosis to my children. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif[/img] I guess I really should not consider taking him home. There is a reptile in almost every room in my home. THe rooms without reptiles are rooms I would never allow them into anyway (ie: kitchen and kids' room, kids' bathroom). Just for knowledge sake, I will research this crypto thing. Maybe if I could have gotten to him sooner, but he also has a %600 price tag, there's no way I could do that, even if he were healthy. If it's meant to be, it will hapen. If David offers, then I will take him and clear out an entire 'wing' of the house for him, but otherwise, I will just hope and pray for either recovery or quick demise. I will print out a care sheet with a suggestion of 'hiding' himaway, if nothing else but to get him out of public view from a 'bad store image' point, anything to get him secluded where he doesn't have to suffer in public.
Sooooo sad, I do hate people (nobody here, I actually found people here that belong in the gene pool, you guys are the best).
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NYCSpeedcore · #13 (**permalink**) 03-13-2002, 07:20 PM

Yeah, he never should have put that emerald in a high traffic area, but don't worry about the guy not having a hide box, they don't need them.
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JuliusSqueezer · #14 (**permalink**) 03-14-2002, 12:12 AM

Yah they don't do hide boxes at all....they do however like to lay on the perch under a broad leaf or leafy branch sometimes. If they hide at all, that's how they hide.
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Reticu-Lady · #15 (**permalink**) 03-24-2002, 06:34 AM

Now I don't know how true this is, but when I went to the pet shop tonight, I looked in on the little guy and he was on his branch and looking fairly good. I am not fully convinced that it is the same one, but it's the same size and a little thin, even though it looks a whole lot better than before. Maybe I jumped to conclusions, but I know a sick animal when I see one, and he was very definitly sick. I still can't believe it's the same one, but I am told it is. Will wonders never cease? (Almost wished I did bring him home, he's pretty.)
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