Poison Dart frogs... just how bad?

[Conipto]

Hey folks,

I was given this forum's URL by a friend of mine, who said it was my one stop shop for herps.
I am considering getting some Posion dart frogs, probably of species D. auratus or azuerus. I have looked for decent websites, but really only found any describing vivarium conditions.

My main question is, just how Dangerous are these frogs? Some sites mention even touching them can cause death? Is this true, or over-hype? Right now, I have some 11 species of Tarantula, and some of them are the very aggressive/defensive species, so I'm used to dealing with fast moving and mean species, as well as keeping humidity/temperatures at good levels.

I also read that poison in Poison dart frogs is generated by diet, is this true?

How fast, and likely to jump on me and cause sudden death are these guys as well?

What's the life span of them?

And lastly, for anyone who keeps them, should I?

Bill
[addsig]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>I also read that poison in Poison dart frogs is generated by diet, is this true? </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

This is correct. I forget exactly what it is, but somehting in their diet in the wild that they eat is what is utilized to promote the &quot;poison&quot; they have.


<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>How fast, and likely to jump on me and cause sudden death are these guys as well? </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

They can be fast lil buggers..BUT.. Ya can settle down your heart rate some here. They are not about to go and jump on ya and cause your death at all..lol

Merely touching them, should you decide to keep them even, is not going to cause your death really. They need a specific item in their diet in order to even maintain the level of toxicity that would be needed for such to take place. I am not sure on the touching part even, but you might actually have to ingest or inject the toxin for it to have an affect like poisoning that you are refering to even. One of our other members here will be along i am sure that can give you more in depth answers relative to this question on the poison thing also.
Just obtain cb frogs and you have nothing to worry about at all actually. You wouldn't be feeding them what it is they require to produce their toxin in captivity at all. [ I even have as yet to tell my kids about this.. keeps theim from even attempting to pick any of them up at all lol Ever try to find a teensy lil frog that's gone awol ? I don't want to hehe]


<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>And lastly, for anyone who keeps them, should I?</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

That's a question you'll have to answer yourself actually [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] I do and I like the lil buggers

[img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
[addsig]

	Captive Born Captive Born

[Bry]

Yeah, poison dart frogs eat a certain kind of insect that helps them produce the toxins that makes them inedible to predators. Those insects are not available to us, and they do just fine with the crickets we give them. So, they cannot produce the toxins that are made available to them in the wild. Even if you were to get a wild-caught one, they would probably have some of those toxins. But I imagine that they would lose that as their diet changes in captivity. Even then, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you do not plan on eating a poison dart frog or injecting yourself with one, I think you wil be fine. Even if you were to eat one, you'd probably have a 95% chance of surviving. The remaining 5% would be if you decided to eat one while driving and were hit by another car. But, what are the chances of that happening?

Bry
[addsig]

[JuliusSqueezer]

It isn't so much what they eat but what the bugs that they eat eat. The bugs they eat in the wild feed on toxic plants. Captive bread dart frogs are harmless to touch but doing so stresses them and any toxins, soap residue etc is bad for their delicate system so handling should be kept minimal. Unless you are collecting wild caught frogs, there is no worry of poison discharge though.
[addsig]

Thanx for clarifying that all [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] I couldn't remember what it was exactly. Wasa thinking it had something to do with the bugs and the plants , but just couldn't remember it all atm.

YEAH, They are def not for handling, basically just for show and keeping is all. Another frog you might want to look into if your interested in this type are the Mantellas. They are less expensive and look like the darts. Allthough they do get a tad larger than darts. Might be something to consider for some experience in the frogs like this.
[addsig]

[JuliusSqueezer]

Hey Bry....go down to South America and see how long you can hold onto one without going unconscious lol...they can and will mess you up pretty bad just from touching them in the wild.

Conipto...Should you? I suppose just like keeping any herp...as long as you read everything you can find about them and are willing to provide the right setup. Frogs are a lot of work. Anything they come in contact with will absorb through the skin into their very delicate little system. They are probably the easiest of all herps to kill with less than perfect cage conditions. They aren't cheap either so you will want to make sure you have everything setup for them long before you actually bring any home.
[addsig]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>They aren't cheap either so </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>


That's why I had suggested the Mantellas. They are a tad larger then darts and look the same to most people, but are definately much cheaper to purchase than darts.

Can get most of the Mantelas for $15-25 range, The darts can go from like $35 up past $100 each.
[addsig]

[savannah_babe]

being in the petstore buisness i actually found out quite a bit on poision darts. yes, like jules said, its what they eat in the wild, captive bread are harmless, but in the price range..check around your local petstores, you might be surprised in what you find, a while back, stores were getting them relitivly cheap, and raising the prices, they were in such high demand, they were still selling. some places actually get them cheap and sell them cheap. just keep your eyes out [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
[addsig]

[skadiwolf]

poison dart frogs that are captive-bred (and most are now since they're largely endangered and banned from being exported) have no toxins whatsoever. it is entirely based upon their diet.

however, a wild poison dart frog typically contains around 100 micrograms of toxin. it would take only 2 micrograms of this poison to kill a typical human. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

so, if you're out in the rainforest, don't handle any okay? lol.
[addsig]

[eddie]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>so, if you're out in the rainforest, don't handle any okay? lol.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

Darn... I have all kinds of darts I wanna 'fix up' and now I can't cause you said not to.... [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
[addsig]

[melis]

There are a lot of topics within this thread to address. First, dart frogs are still being imported legally. They are protected by Cities, different frogs have different protection levels, but they are still making their way in from the wild. Like any animal wild caught animals tend to be for the advanced hobbist, so if you are considering getting a dart frog stick with the captive born animals.

Regarding if they are poisonous...it depends. The 3 most poisonous species are from the Phyllobates family. In the wild, one frog has enough poison to kill 10 adults!!!! D. Auratus can also be poisonous if they are imported from the wild, but for the most part they will only cause you a little bit of pain. All captive born poison frogs are NOT toxic. It is believed the insects in the wild each poisonous plants. The alkolds in these plants/insects are part of the reason the frog is poisonous. Now, here is the weird part...if the wild diet is reintroduced to a captive born animal, they will not produce the toxins. No one knows why. Most of the other species are toxic - but will not kill you if you touch them.

Mantellas vs Darts - for the most part Darts are larger than mantellas. There are exeptions, I know but most darts are larger exept for thumbnails &amp; pumillos (strawberrys). Their care is different as well. In general, mantellas like it cooler than the darts. I have kept mantellas &amp; darts side by side - loosing all my mantellas to a heat spike where the darts survived it. Mark Staniszewski has a wonder book(s) on them I recommend reading.


Hi, although I have prowled &quot;Reptile Haven&quot; before, this is the first time I have posted to any of the forums. Prior to giving my two cents on some of the topics within in the Frogs &amp; Toads section (Concerning Dart Frogs to be specific) I wanted to give a little background. I am 1/2 of the company Quality Captives (www.qualitycaptives.com), and we specialize in Captive born poison dart frogs and all of the supplies, setups, etc that go with them.


[addsig]